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-   -   Mercola folds? (http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=103308)

gotbeer Mon, May-05-03 17:07

Mercola folds?
 
Mercola folds?

JUST found this 1-hour old (according to google.com) item on the website of a long-time Atkins' critic Dr. Mercola:

Link to "No Grain Diet"

I hate to say it, but NA NA NEE NA NA :devil: .

The first of the post-mortem would-be Atkins usurpers steps forward. Note that the liar dates it Apr 5, 2003 (www.mercola.com/2003/apr/5/nograindiet.htm) on May 5, 2003 - like I wouldn't have found it before now - ha!

To Mercola: Eat carbs and die, you pathetic wannabe.

tamarian Mon, May-05-03 17:39

Re: Mercola folds?
 
Quote:
Originally posted by gotbeer
Mercola folds?

JUST found this 1-hour old (according to google.com) item on the website of a long-time Atkins' critic Dr. Mercola:

Link to "No Grain Diet"

I hate to say it, but NA NA NEE NA NA :devil: .

The first of the post-mortem would-be Atkins usurpers steps forward. Note that the liar dates it Apr 5, 2003 (www.mercola.com/2003/apr/5/nograindiet.htm) on May 5, 2003 - like I wouldn't have found it before now - ha!



Gotbeer,

I didn't get your point?

Dr. Mercola has been an anti-grain, and somewhat pro low-carb for quite a while, and his new book has been out for several weeks.

What in the page offended you?

I'm not a big fan of his (I dislike his commentaries on research he posts, where every comment seem mostly contrived to link to a promotion of a product) but I can't see what's wrong in promoting his book on his site.

The date, is not a problem. It's the date of the article or page. The book is known to be published before, and has been on Amazon for a while.

Wa'il

seyont Mon, May-05-03 17:53

Mercola is not one of the bad guys. I've been reading his stuff for a few years.

Here's a recent article with Mercola's headline: Dr. Atkins, a True Giant of Modern Nutrition, Passes Away at Age 72

Pooch Mon, May-05-03 20:51

His website is one big advertisment for buying his products.

Turtle2003 Mon, May-05-03 21:51

I don't understand your post at all. :confused:

It's not as though Mercola has sided with Ornish or something. He has preached the low carb way of eating for years, and if he disagreed with Atkins on some points, he has also had many good things to say about him. It's funny that since Mercola has decided to preach the gospel according to 'The Metabolic Typing Diet' his dietary views have become even closer to Atkins, at least for his own 'type'.

His anti-grain book has been in the works for many months; it is not something thrown together to take advantage of Atkin's death in some way. And as for marketing his wares, well, Atkins was a one man corporation for many years, what with all of his products and many books. And have you caught the Eades infomercial?

All of these people are trying to make a buck, not just Mercola.

gotbeer Tue, May-06-03 06:35

Caught me at a weak moment, I guess - the guy has always irritated me, though I'm not as familiar w/ his background as you folks are. Making money is a good thing but his commercialism is way, way overblown - THAT I find annoying: taking our wonderful WOE/WOL and making it and us look like victims of a huckster.

I've been expecting a successor to Atkins to try to claim the reigns of this movement but I'm not ready to let go of Dr. A. yet.

Sorry.

Oldsalty Tue, May-06-03 07:26

I eagerly await his news letter, and Dr Mercola has become my first point of reference for medical issues. I acknowledge that he pushes his products but that is life. I find his commentaries useful and interesting.
Ed

acohn Tue, May-06-03 12:10

mercola's commentary
 
I often find Mercola's commentary superficial. He seems to read only the study abstracts, not take the time to put the study in context of other studies on the topic, or examine the quality of the research.

Take, for example, his commentary on Splenda. He relies heavily on information from some group called the Sucralose Toxicity Information Center. Here's the reply of one person who's worked in medical research.

From the article
Pre-Approval Research
...The dose of sucralose in the experiments was high. However, for chemicals that do not have generations of safe use, the dosage tested must be adjusted for variations in potential toxicity within the human population and between humans and rodents. In order to this, toxicologists estimate a variation of effects in the human population of 10 times. In other words, one person may not have effects until a dose of 10 mg per kg of body weight (10 mg/kg) is reached, while another person may have chronic toxicity effects at 1 mg per kg of body weight (1 mg/kg).

Actually, that's not quite the industry standard way of figuring out a dose range for either pre-approval or long-term testing.

From the article:
In addition, it is well known that many chemicals are much more toxic in humans than in rodents (or even monkeys). For example, the chemicals that the sweetener aspartame breaks down into vary from 5 to 50 times more toxic in humans than in rodents. Therefore, toxicologists estimate a further 10 times the dose for differences between human and rodent toxicity for a total of 100 times (10 * 10).

Again, I'm always wary when a journalist who obviously isn't a scientist makes a statement like 'it is well known that...' and then only has one thing to back him up. And FYI, this dosage calculation is also not the industry standard, at least not for pharmaceutical research.

From the article:
In order to estimate a potential safe dose in humans, one must divide the lowest dose in given to rodents that was seen to have any negative effects on their thymus glands, liver or kidneys by 100. That dose is then known as the maximum Tolerable Daily Intake (TDI) for lifetime use. Keep in mind that the TDI is just an estimate. Some chemicals are much more than 10 times more toxic in humans than in rodents (or will cause cancer in humans in low-dose, long-term exposure and do not cause cancer in rodents at all). A person ingesting the TDI for some chemical may find that it causes cancer or immune system or neurological problems after many years or decades of use. So, if the manufacturer claims that the dose was equivalent to 50 diet sodas, then the TDI would be one half (1/2) of a diet soda, and even that dose may or may not be safe.

Again, where is this person getting these numbers and formulae? Anything for human consumption that was tested in rodents also had to be tested in other species, including NHP (non-human primates), and was probably also tested in dogs. I have never seen a chemical cause a reaction in man that hadn't caused *some* reaction in at least one species. In fact, with some of the stuff I've worked on, rodents *die* but it causes *no* reaction in other species, including man.

From the article:
Independent, Long-Term Human Research
None. Manufacturer's "100's of studies" (some of which show hazards) were clearly inadequate and do not demonstrate safety in long-term use.

With all due respect, 'independent long-term human research studies' almost always happen post-approval...I'm not talking about 12-24 month carc studies (which should have been done pre-approval in non-human species) but true long-term human studies with large 'n' for 3-5 *year* periods. Care to volunteer?

From the article:
Conclusion
So, without even addressing the pre-approval research showing potential toxicity, it is clear that sucralose has a) no long history (e.g., decades) of safe use, b) no independent monitoring of health effects, c) no long-term human studies, and d) no independent human studies.

Folks, where are you going to find any 'new' products with a long history of independently monitored decades of safe use? The two statements are mutally incompatible. Of course sucralose doesn't meet that criteria. For that matter, neither does chocolate or sugar.


From the article:
As far as the pre-approval research related to sucralose.... As you probably know, pre-approval research is rarely published. It is only available from the FDA by filing a Freedom of Information Act request.

Odd--the pharmaceutical company I work for has to *publish* everything, including pre-approval research, especially for NDAs (new drug approvals.) Again, upon what is this person basing his factual-sounding but entirely erroneous statements?

From the article:
It is very important that people who have any interest in their health stay aware...

Ah...at last a point on which we can agree. And I would add to 'stay aware' the warning to not take at face value every factual sounding bit of personal opinion that crosses their paths.

This is particularly true when he immediately applies the results of mouse studies to humans.



For a more recent example, take his commentary on an exercise study. Mercola even acknowledges that the study's authors are careful to not make too much of the results: "However, researchers point out that the study only questioned men about their exercise habits once during the study, so they do not know whether the men changed their habits changed over the 10-year study period."

Yet, in spite of this, he goes on to claim only vigorous exercise will reduce the risk of heart disease. While this may well be true, that assertion is not justified on the basis of the evidence he presents, not by a long shot.

I find that these two examples are typical of the shallowness of Mercola's commentaries. He may be relying on a wealth of knowledge, but he's not sharing it with us. I would prefer if he stopped taking a scattershot approach to presenting health information, when the results are sloppy and even inaccurate.


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