Question about Ketosis and Fat Storage
 

Maybe I'm missing something....or its just really late, I'm not sure, but my understanding is that while in ketosis your body is using fat for energy whether it be from food or fat stores. I've also read that while you are in ketosis you don't produce insulin which causes calories to be stored as fat. At the end of the day weight loss is all about having a calorie deficit......calories in - calories burned = calories deficit ie weightloss.

So assuming someone takes in wayyyyyy more calories then they burn yet they are in ketosis, how is it that fat is still stored. Does insulin restart at some point even with a lack of carbs.

What you are saying is assuming that a calorie is a calorie, and this is true if you are diesel engine and you burn fuel (burn as with fire). We now know that different food are being use by our body differently and with different degree of efficiency.
there is a lot we don't understand about our body. For example, if a calorie is a calorie, how come we can lose 1-2 pounds a day at the beginning of our LC diet? If a calories in - calories burnt = pound lost/gain, then it would mean that a person in the beginning of a diet is burning 7000 calories more then they eat!! what gives? no one is sure..

If you eat wayyyyyyy too much fat, you will be in ketosis and you may gain weight. No one is sure how exactly this whole thing works and why we stall and why fat gets accumulated when you do not eat it... We know the presence of insulin help getting you fat, but what is the mechanism and what other hormones have to do with it is still not %100 clear..

Quote
"At the end of the day weight loss is all about having a calorie deficit......calories in - calories burned = calories deficit ie weightloss. "

That's the old way of thinking, and if your on a low fat diet that is true. However while you are on a low carb diet, your insulin levels are low enough that you will not store the extra fat you take in at fat. It will simply pass out the body as waste. One of the reasons many have lose bm's while LCing.

It's not how many calories you are taking in. It's more about how your body is treating those calories.
Fat has 9 calories per gram, but 4 of those calories are used just to process that one gram of fat. So there are really only 5 calories of effective calories per gram of fat while you are LCing.
That is why when LCing you can ingest much more calories than you can when on a low fat diet without gaining weight. Of course your not going to lose much if your taking in a ton either.

Some people never have to count calories and lose all the time. Most of us at some point will stall out or weight loss will slow way down and that when you may want to keep closer count of them.

For myself I eat up to 3000 calories 4 days a week and for the other 3 days I eat between 1400-1600 calories. And during those 3 days I have my weight loss for the week. I average 3 pounds per week of weight loss.

A good book to better explain all this is the Protein Power book.

I may as well ask this question here instead of raising a new thread:

When you are in a 'stall' does that mean that Ketosis has stopped?

I think you guys are misunderstanding my question......we don't disagree that you can be low-carb and still gain weight or even stall, ..... lets make this extreme so i can get my point across.


Assuming I need <1600 cals to loose, and while Lc'ing AND staying in Ketosis I consume 4000 calories ....how does the body store fat/excess calories in the presence of ketones??

Senimoni

I think the science says that you won't store it! I could be wrong though... but I think it's all excreted.

S

Thats what I was kinda thinking, but that just doesn't seem right.....maybe I should test this theory....hahaha

Thx guys

*grin*
Did losing weight while eating loads of fatty food seem right before? ;) This WOE challenges pretty much every preconception we had about food...

S

Remember that in that 4000 calories you are eating, it is not purely fat. Your body is ale to take excess protein and convert it to glucose, which then triggers a rush of insulin, which then allows storage of fat, even in the presence of ketones.

Senimoni, gimmpy did answer your question :)



You need insulin to store fat. IF you keep carbs restricted insulin is kept in check. You cannot store fat. You may not lose fat if you eat too much (and too much is a lot for most of us), but you won't be storing it.

Steve, a stall can still leave you in ketosis. It's a sign that something you are doing, or not doing, is inhibiting fat loss - not fat burning. A plateau, on the other hand, is your body adjusting to it's new size and taking a 'time out'. Both happen to us, and both usually have to be waited out. The body is in control. This is a good time to focuss on other aspects of your new WOL - your health, your fitness level, how great you feel. The added time it takes to lose the fat permits us to learn new ways of eating and behaving around food - this is how we make permanent changes and maintain our new size.

Cheers,
Nat

Ack! This is probably the biggest misconception about eating protein out there, and I understand why it exists.

When you eat high carb, yes, 58% of what you consume of your protein can be turned into glucose. When you eat LC, yes, excess protein can, and will be, turned into glucose - there's nothing we can do to stop this. However, that being said, it will not be stored as fat.

[the following copied from Orion1 at Protein Power BB]

The process of converting excess protein into glucose is called de novo gluconeogenesis and it is a constant process that your body utilizes to maintain glucose homeostasis.

Gluconeogenesis, occurs predominantly in the liver although the kidneys also contribute approximate 10% of all gluconeogentic activity. The main precursors of gluconeogenesis are amino acids derived from the muscles. Another important precursor is lactate, which is formed in red blood cells and in muscles when oxygen is in short supply. Glycerol produced from the degradation of fats can also sustain gluconeogenesis. Humans can synthesize several hundred grams of glucose per day by gluconeogenesis. Cortisol, glucagon, and epinephrine promote gluconeogenesis, whereas insulin inhibits it.

So, it is possible to make glucose out of proteins, in fact we do that all the time. Whenever the blood glucose level drops, signals are sent to put the gluconeogentic machinery to work. However, this process is under the control of glucagon, cortisol or epinephrine, the three of them acting under different circumstances. Glucagon and insulin cannot both be "on" at the same time. That is, if glucagon is “on” and controlling gluconeogenesis, insulin is “off”, and vice versa. Following this reasoning, if insulin is off (actually that means not present in excess), fat storage is also controlled, and fat release from the fat cells is favored (another process influenced by glucagon).

The process of storing fat into you fat cells needs both fat and insulin. The process of making fat requires both excess carbohydrates and insulin to activate fat synthesis. With glucagon being released instead these processes are inhibited. Thus, the mere conversion of amino acids into glucose by gluconeogenesis should not be misunderstood as a mechanism through which fat can be synthesized or deposited into the fat cells. The glucose produced by gluconeogenesis has a “tag” on it, and it will serve to supply for blood glucose when the levels fall.

Nat

I was waiting for you to answer Nat....its like ok Nat said ......,..so it must be true. But seriously you are so ON it,...."we're not worthy" haha

Anyway, that is so cool to know, I was just sitting around thinking about one of your post actually.....where you discussed how insulin can't be present while in ketosis....or you talked about glucogenesis or something....too many big words and I was like, wait a minute....so even if I eat XXX I can't store fat....guess its true


You learn something new everyday.

I am a Diabetic and since we are taking about Insulin,i wanted to know
if the Insulin Shots i take every morning and every night are going to
affect my lossing Fat and Lossing weight also. Please help clear this
all for me.
Thank You, Carolyn226

Being on injectable insulin or any type of diabetic medication means that you should watch your Blood Sugars even more carefully when doing low carb.

If you are on a sliding scale of insulin you can probably adjust quite easily to LC, if you are on a fixed dose you will want to make sure that your family MD or endocrinologist know so that they can review your dosage to make sure you aren't going hypo. - rob

Carolyn, I'm not qualified to give you any kind of medical advice vis a vis your insulin. That being said, I think Rob has answered your question pretty well and seeing as its likely he's a nurse I'm pretty confident he knows what he's talking about.

What I would suggest is that you get your hands on a copy of Dr. Bernstien's book - he is a Type I diabetic who has been dealing with LC and diabetes, successfully, for over 55 years. We have a very active forum devoted to this plan, FYI.

senimoni, learning something new is a great thing, keep it up :thup: :)

Nat