i just ate about 90-100g protein in 1 sitting
 

yup ,finished carb loading saturday p.m , its sunday afternoon just got back from the gym and for my first meal i downed 90-100g of protein, 69g of fat( no prob for my size ) and about 3 carbs ,, im kinda worried bout my protein intake for that one sitting , think more then 40-50 is quite a bit ,, any info on where its gonna go, or is that extra 40-50g gonna be a energy source (converted to carbs?), this isnt something i do often but anyone know if i do that during the week( monday-thursday) if itll boot me out of ketosis.
active 22m 6'4 207pds 9.5% bf , goal is 195pds while maintaining exacly the same amount of lean muscle i have which is 188pds
THANX MUCH
you guyz n this site r awesome by the way

I had one of those "Duh!" moments yesterday when I read that protein converts to glucose at a rate of 58%, which is why fat is supposed to be the super majority of calories in a keto diet. I always thought protein was and remained amino acids!
So I'd say that you overdid it, but heck, it's one meal! I may be wrong, but you were probably not in ketosis yet, so insulin might still be a factor and push that unused glucose into the muscle as glycogen. Hopefully someone else with more knowledge will put their two cents in.

hi Westsnoop,

can you tell me where you read that abou the protein? i am on day 3 and starving so ate about 200g protein today and am sure it truned to sugar cause ketosis is nowhere in sight! and was told my protein is too high. I would like to read about that. thanks! Kay

kay, i presume thats your name , but from your stats i think i read you are 115 pds,, 200 grams of protein is TOO much for you , especially on ckd,, on ckd you should be at about 100 grams of protein a day at your size which would also mean your fat intake should be in that area as well , if i were you id try to eat 4-5-6 meals a day and workout your protein fat ratio from there,, 25x4 protein/fat or 20x5 protein/fat , you can always increase your fat intake by a certain number of grams if your losing too much weight TOO QUICKLY but i wouldnt up your protein intake , a hundred grams is enough for you to keep from hard earned muscle loss :)
chaz

According to the ACSM, recommended protein for a fairly active adult is in the range of 1 to 1.8 grams of protein for each pound of body weight. So I don't think 90 to 100 grams is all that bad...unless you ate like 3 meals that way :)

i agree, i think the extra protein has been playing with my insulin and i am starving?? i never used to eat that much protein and was not ever this hungry and never ate so much. what about carbs? i'm on induction and not working out right now cause i can barely move!!!! thanks for the advice...much needed that's for sure!! :)

http://www.massmonsters.com/6/ubb.x...81&m=8186038281

That's where I first came across it. I didn't quite believe it, so I did a protein to glucose conversion search on www.ask.com and got a ton of links.

Are you sure they didn't say 1 to 1.8 grams of protein per kilogram of bw? (1 kg=2.2 lbs). I think that's the usual recommendation outside of bodybuiding, where 1 gram per lb. seems to be a golden rule.

I agree with Westsnoop about the protein to weight ratio. 1-1.8 seems more realistic per pound of LBM or per kg of weight.

Regarding protein and glucose conversion, you may find this of interest. This information, BTW, takes LC physiology into account, whereas most of what you read assumes you are eating high carbs:

Gluconeogenesis

Nat

Natrushka, I read through your gluconeogenesis link, and I don't understand the part about the glucose produced having a "tag" on it. For instance, if I were to consume 100 grams of a fast digesting protein like whey isolate while in ketosis, wouldn't I have a quick rush of 58 grams of glucose into my blood? Wouldn't that cause insulin release and fat spill over?
How about a slower protein like casein?
Am I right in keeping protein portions small to prevent insulin release?

No, west, it would not. Gluconeogenesis takes place under the influence of 3 hormones, all of which are not insulin (glucagon, cortisol or adrenaline). Without insulin you cannot have fat storage. If you should actually eat 'excessive' protein it would be wasted - literally. Without insulin it cannot be stored as fat. It's basic bio 101. The 58% figure comes from high carb eating research.

Nat

You can have fat storage without insulin! I first read about aclyation simulating protein (ASP) here:

http://t-mag.com/nation_articles/225fat.html

Still got some more searching to do on it to fully understand how this hormone works, but it is fully independent of insulin. It may or may not have anything to do with the issue at hand, but I thought I'd interject that.

West, thanks for the link - I haven't visited T-mag in a while :)

Interesting article, but I do take issue with a few of the comments (although they don't all bare directly on the issue of ASP).

"Next up: Glucagon. Since glucagon is a regulatory hormone responsible for providing energy to the tissues, it is classified as a catabolic hormone. Essentially, glucagon plays Lex Luther to insulin's Superman. To be more specific, glucagon stimulates the breakdown of stored glycogen into glucose in skeletal muscle and in the liver, stimulates the breakdown of fats into fatty acids in adipose tissue, maintains the liver's output of glucose from amino acid precursors, and leads to the formation of ketone bodies from fatty-acid precursors in the liver; all catabolic events designed at dipping into your energy reserves to provide fuel.

Since a protein-only meal increases the release of glucagon (in order to stimulate the liver to produce glucose to normalize blood sugar) and since fat does nothing to directly mitigate the effects of a protein meal on glucagon release while carbohydrates decrease this response, some have speculated that a protein-only meal or a protein-plus-fat meal is a no-no since the glucagon release may promote the manufacture of glucose from all those ingested amino acids.

While this may be true with a high protein diet that also lacks sufficient dietary carbohydrate I believe that the destruction of amino acids will be minimal if the body has sufficient carbohydrate reserves in the liver."

The author is basing this on someone eating carbs (and says so in the next sentence) "In this case, glucagon will tend to make more of the necessary blood glucose from stored glycogen than from ingested amino acids"

LCers have no stored glycogen in their liver or muscles - that's the first stuff to go when you restrict carbs. Glucagon is the primary / dominant hormone when we eat fat for fuel, because we eat protein as well, and because fat has no metabolic impact on anything - it's neutral. He author has his facts straight but he is basing the outcome on a different situation.

He thing that bothered me the most about the article was the information thrown about with nothing backing it up- and the off handed comment like this: "So where's the scientific data? We don't got none. But the theory makes some sense. <insert hairpullingoutsmilieface>

Now the ASP info is something new - to me, but not to science, as they would have us believe. Again, not much info provided. Here's what I've gathered.

Chylomicrons are not prepackaged fats, they are a lipid-shuttling particle made by the body (in the intestines) to transport fats around to the cells, in particular triglycerides, which are used by the cells as energy. The fat in chylomicrons is normally removed by the tissues and cleared from the blood in 4 to 6 hours. However, when the fat removal mechanisms are impaired, as they are in patients with very high triglycerides, it can take days to clear chylomicrons from the blood. In such an overwhelmed chylomicron removal system, every bit of fat that is eaten in the diet is absorbed into the blood, but has nowhere to go. This causes the triglycerides to increase more and more and of course, that's not good. But does increased serum TG mean increased fat storage?

Where does ASP come into this? It's part of the pathway that clears triglycerides from the body. If you're lacking in it, you don't clear them as quickly, if you've got enough, you clear them from the blood. Interestingly enough, studies on what affects ASP production show that neither glucose nor fatty acid have much of an effect on production. However the introduction of external chylomicrons has a marked increase on ASP production.

What's really interesting about this from a LC stand point is that one of the biggest and first changes to happen to us on a cellular level when we start eating fat as our primary macronutrient: Or triglyceride levels drop drastically - usually to well below the norm.

Obviously there's something going on that has yet to be explained :) I think part of it has got to have something to do with the source of cholesterol / triglycerdies (dietary over endogenous).

Thanks for the read.

Nat

wow snoop i never knew of that tmag site ive been reading it for hours now and loving their info BUT about the article you sent i noticed that their nutritional intake is completly different then that of CKD ,They consume carbs on a daily bases in large amounts but tend to divide their carbs and fats in different sittings while consuming protein with each of those sittings ( seems interesting if ckd doesnt go through , but i dont see why it shouldnt , but if i ever need to jump on a bulking phase that is how ill do it)
basically i dont think they ever reach the state of ketosis nor do i think they want too for energy reasons and consistent workouts throughout the week, so basically there body is functioning completly different then ours( that is if your on ckd )
chaz