Newbies changing the rules
 

Hi all....

I have been reading many journals, threads, posts of people that have started Atkins and have already set their own rules (or adopted rules they have seen on the forum).

All I want to say is that Atkins has been proven to work for so many people as is and why (unless you have tried it for months and lost nothing) is everyone second guessing the diet and rewriting it.

The premise is to be able to enjoy eating again without guilt or needless obsessing on calories or ratios.

We only count carbs.
We eat when we are hungry and stop when our body says we are full.
It is a simple and beautiful way to eat until healthy and satisfied every day!

I understand why we doubt the rules of this plan from the start (we were taught so rigidly the opposite) but it really does work. And it is such a shame that we don't trust our bodies to be able to handle this freedom.

All I know is it works and I believe whole heartedly in the process. It does take a while because the body has natural stalls but it so works!

Thanks all for reading my little rant...

I agree. Too many folks come up with variations before they have given the real plan a chance to work. Also too many who don't really know what the plan is and are skipping the veggies, water and exercise and are introducting all kinds of synthetic food-like substances during induction. (Showing my biases here, huh?) Thanks for listening to MY rant. :)

Cindy

I'm with you Cindy... not against you... :D

Lisa, I've read a couple of your posts, and you seem to get frustrated with people who don't look at this plan as a WOL, and now with those who experiment with Atkins as a way to find their comfort zone. When I first started I didn't look at this as being my WOL, just as a diet plan that may or may not take. It took.. and I decided on my own to make this my WOL. It's a personal choice.. and although we feel very strongly about, it may not be for everyone. On the same note... what's wrong with experimenting? Journals are posted for advice... if you feel they are straying, say so. Be someone's mentor. But at the same time, respect that others will try different things as they strive to find what works for them as an individual. Atkins advice isn't written in stone... he himself has added and taken away allowable foods in the pursuit of perfecting this WOL.

Hey, people love to investigate, play around with the rules, explore their own new caves and valleys, discover their own truth.

It is how we are made - to try new things - maybe crack your skull bungee-jumping, maybe split an atom.

And maybe, devise or improve a great eating way of life.

Atkin's is a solid base to build on, and growing firmer with every pound lost and every study vindicating it.

But hey, YMMV - everyone's a bit different - some can handle sugar alcohols, some can't. Some love Nutrasweet, others hate it. Some experience cravings worse than others.

Let the flowers bloom in every shade - monochrome is boring, IMHO.

I understand what you are saying Rose and GotBeer and perhaps you have challenged me on something I need to work on here...

This thread was really aimed at new people that I feel are eating unhealthy or cutting calories unrealistically (because they are complaining that they are still hungry and not losing fast enough).

If you start something new and tested and healthy. Then actually give it a try. If you find it doesn't work for you or you crave other things... THEN modify to suit yourself or your lifestyle.

But to create your own rules and then say it doesn't work is to not really have tried it at all.

Do you understand what I mean???

True enough - failure is NOT FUN, and taking the blame for one's own failure is worst of all.

The friend who got me into Atkin's just fell off of it. He was 270 and I 280 when I started - but he stalled as I was dropping. I was eating outrageously - a pound of bacon w/ 4 eggs, etc, and still losing. He decided to eat less to try to catch me, and totally sabotaged himself.

I tried to tell him, "Dude, you need MORE cheese sauce, not less." but he just couldn't buy into it.

Anyway, he is now on a more traditional calorie-restricted diet. And I know he's going to hate it as much as I love Atkins.

Poor b~st~rd. I am grateful to him, though, for he pointed me in the right direction, even if he couldn't make it work for himself.

I think I'm qualified to put in my two cents...I've been on this woe for 18 months now...I tweek it, I count calories, I try to make the diet fit me so I can stay on it...it has worked I'm down 50 lbs and still going...I think this is a matter of respecting that not everybody is cut from the same cloth. I admire people that stray from the straight and narrow, I actually come here looking for different takes on this diet (it does get old after a while)

I say thumbs up to the newbies and oldies that are creative enough to make this woe something that they can stick with. After all the time I've been on this diet I would think that I would have lost far more than I have, I'm somewhat dissapointed that I have not. Since coming here I find that I'm not the only one (actually before coming here I had no idea how little I have been losing) I have to watch my calories because I'm not one of those people that can eat 2200 calories and still lose, no matter what plan I'm on...since I've come here I've been told to cut back on my protein, it is too high, and I keep my carbs under 20...but does that make me any less an Atkins dieter than anybody else here...nope...just different.

The wonderful thing about America is that we can all be different and feel safe about being so...newbies please don't let this discourage you...keep on keeping on.

Gail

Lisa.. absolutely! I think in cases like that, people hope for something to work... convince themselves it's allowable, then fall of their chairs when it doesn't work. I might even have been guilty of the same!! :D I guess the main point here is to experiment, but to keep an open mind. Don't place blame, just be ready to write-off the failed attempts to a learning experience, and move on. Above all.. try and keep informed by using the propper resources. You know the saying... If something sounds to good to be true..... ;)

I do understand, Lisa...I was not saying the Atkins diet was not working...only that I was frustrated by my own body's apparent genius at holding on to weight, LOL!

My calories may seem too low -perhaps they are - but please understand that I have a thyroid problem (borderline hypothyroid at 2.95 - if I were 3.04 I would be given medications, but my thyroid is just half a speck not sluggish enough - but certainly I have all the symptoms such as sluggish metabolism, etc.)

A person who has thyroid problems - especially if not corrected by medications - is not going to burn as many calories each day as part of basal metabolism as a person with a healthy thyroid.

That is a proven fact! And most endocrinologists say that any reading above 2 on the TSH indicates hypothyroidism. Since I am nearly 3, that is certainly above 2, LOL!

When I look back on my life, the only times I have been able to keep my weight in the healthy range was by either cutting my calories to below 1,000 a day or by upping my exercise (running 5 to 6 miles per day for instance as well as other excercises.) If I ran 5-6 miles per day, I found that I could eat as much as 1,600 calories per day without gaining weight. For most of my teen years and 20's and 30's, I limited myself to one meal per day. The one meal was a generous one, and I usually allowed myself some candy, plus I had a couple of cokes during the day, but the total number of calories was still pretty low.

(Edited to add: There have been times when I pigged out, gained weight like mad and then lost it by...running 5-6 miles and "fasting" on nothing but diet Cokes. No food. For two weeks at a time - then I would have to eat again for a few days because I would become too weak.)

My mother always ate only one meal per day, although even still she struggled with her weight. She had borderline hypothyroidism most of her life (like I do now) and when her numbers finally got "bad" enough the docs gave her medicine. Amazing! She stopped sleeping all day long and dropped the 50 lbs. she struggled with all her life, within one year, with no effort.

Hey, life with a sick thyroid isn't fun, what can I say? But it's not QUITE sick enough for the Army docs to let me have medicine.

I am thinking of going to a civilian doc - just read a post yesterday by a lady in the thyroid section of this site, whose doc was very alarmed by her reading of 2.09 or something (remember, mine is 2.95 - quite a bit worse) and wanted to put her on meds right away for hypothyroidism.

Why is her doc treating her and my doc is not treating me, although my numbers indicate a worse hypothyroid situation?

Well...Army docs do NOT do anything they are not FORCED to do, let's put it that way.

I might just pay the money out of my own pocket to go see a civilian doc, just to get the help my thyroid (and metabolism) desperately needs.

Anyway, that is the main reason I distrust that the plan of eating until you are full will work for me.

I have no doubt that for a person with a healthy thyroid, this plan will work beautifully.

But I think for those of us with untreated hypothyroidism, any weight loss is an especial uphill battle.

In fact, in his book, Dr. Atkins talks about how difficult hypothyroid patients find it to lose weight, even on his diet, until their thyroid problems are addressed and they are brought to the healthy TSH level of about 1.0.

I am eating more today, and will continue to eat more like 1,200 to 1,500 calories per day as an experiment, but I have good reason given my hypothyroidism to believe that eating 800 to 1,000 calories might actually be too high a number for me.

Didn't mean to piss you off so badly.

Leora

(Edited to add - you know, actually, although I did not intentionally piss you off, I do not really care that I did - I consider it more YOUR problem than mine. You do not know the details of my situation, and different bodies certainly do have different basal metabolisms. )

I'm new here too. I understand the diet and am staying with it. It has only been less than 2 weeks and am still craving pasta. I'm wondering, when you get down to your desired weight and achieve your goal, do you still never eat pasta. That is really the only thing that is posing a problem for me right now. I was a LC once before a couple of years ago but fell off the wagon. I wasn't a true believer. This time I'm a bit more determined and have seen results on others. Any thoughts on how to reach my desired weight and still, occasionally be able to eat pasta.

There is good news for pasta lovers coming, I think.

As the popularity of LC diets expands, I expect to see more and more LC products appear. LC pasta can't be that far away.

Also there is always spaghetti squash, and the wonderful deep-dish pizza recipe in the "recipes" section of this forum, among others.

Bear in mind, though, this is a way of eating for life - occasional cheats aside. Consider alcoholics: many (some say all) can never be allowed to drink again. Likewise for carboholics - eating pasta has got to handled warily, if at all.

Personally, I find al fredo sauce works even better on grilled, spicy Italian sausage than it does on tasteless, fattening noodles.

Leora,

I'm sorry that you are so upset, but may I remind you that it is not necessary to go the extra mile to ridicule someone. It is absolutely appropriate for Lisa to share her thoughts. I'm sorry if they don't agree with yours. Your first post made your point diplomatically. Next time, maybe you should leave it at that instead of personally attacking people.

I think we need a referee.

Leora, I think it is horrible that you feel you need to defend yourself...this is a board that everybody should be welcome at. There are several of us that tweek the diet, and actually Lisa does also, she does not eat 20g of carbs EVERYDAY, nor does she keep her fat/protein ratio EXACTLY at what Dr. Atkins states, nobody does...I don't think this was a personal attack, it could not have been I felt the sting of it also but decided to ignore it and post anyways...

Do what you need to do in order to make this diet work for you, don't leave the site because you feel offended by one, everybody deserves a bad day and we are safe people for others to attack because there is no personal connect. Take everything with a grain of salt and know you have many here that support and welcome you.

Gail

Healthy debate is always welcome .. BUT ..
 

The Forum Rules are very clear that flames and personal attacks will not be tolerated, and any member can lose their posting privileges if they engage in such behaviour. If you have concerns over any post, please report it to a moderator; there's a link at the bottom of every single post to do that. The report should be made BEFORE resorting to inflammatory attacks, not after.

One of Leora's posts has been removed, due to the personal nature of the attack.

Doreen

Thank you for both the support and also for those who pointed out that I allowed my anger to get out of hand and posted very inappropriately. Even if I feel that I have been attacked personally, I should never ever attack back or cause distress to other readers by attacking back.

I apologize very much to everyone including the person I felt attacked me for all innappropriate messages or parts of messages.

Thank you for saying I am still welcome, I appreciate that very much.

I do need to take a break for a few days, though, I have been sitting here crying for the last few minutes, this is just too much for me right now.

It may be that I am already under a bit of stress from having lost my Mom a few months ago and then learning that my husband will be deployed soon to Iraq to look for nuclear weapons and the raw materials that might be used to make nuclear weapons, in order to assure our safety from a nuclear threat by a terrorist.

I'm not my best self right now as my posts made abundantly clear, and I will take a break until I do feel that I am at least closer to my best self.

Again, I extend my heartfelt apologies to all those I have sorely offended.

Love, Leora

I swear that was your own perception not mine. This is a healthy debate that is in full swing!

I am a real live human being (ie., with flaws) that is overwhelmed and excited by the freedom that this WOL has given me and that is one reason that I try to give to others that seem to need that.

I hope I haven't offended anyone - this was meant as a debate to see what responses would be given.

I do feel that all those that have been on plan for a while of course can, would, should tweek to make this work for them. And when it stops working tweek again... although my tweeking didn't work for me so I came back to the original plan.

All i'm saying that when I read from new people that they just started lcing on this board that say they are on Atkins but the only thing in common with Atkins is the under 20 carbs a day piece of the puzzle... and they are hungry or having problems losing weight that maybe they should try this healthy and proven effective plan as written for a while.

Just my personal theory here.

This is really none of my business, but when has that stopped me before :)

Lisa, I think it's wonderful that you have so much enthusiasm for LC and I really admire you for putting so much time into helping new people and people who are having troubles. I hope you don't mind my saying, that it does seem to me sometimes you maybe don't realize how strongly your posts might come across. I can see how a newbie might take it personally, especially with the whole issue of weight being so emotionally charged for so many of us. Even though I'm absolutely sure you don't mean it that way, you're just trying to help people and maybe get irritated at responding to the same misconceptions over and over. I hope it's not inappropriate for me to say this, if it is I apologize.

Leora, I'm so sorry to hear about the loss of your mother and your husband's deployment to Iraq. This must be a very stressful time for you, to say the least. I'll be thinking about you. Hope you feel up to coming back soon.

Wow this is personal. My opinion should carry only as much weight as any other persons...

I'm not sure how to handle some of these responses.

I have my own perspective and don't want to be scared to give it honestly....

Leora, my prayers are with you. Come back as soon as you can, sometimes having friends close by is just what the doc. ordered, maybe in kind words or just support in keeping you with the diet might help you through this trying time. Don't leave for to long I will miss you.

Gail

Actually, one of the things I like best about Atkins is that it is so specific about proportions and what foods can or shouldn't be eaten, especially during induction. I know that without the "Power of 5" section in chapter 14 explaining the increments in which to increase carbs and the order in which they should be added, I probably would be eating way too many carbs right now. My past experience is that anytime I start losing weight, I get so darn pleased with myself that I think it's time to celebrate, and pretty soon I'm right back where I started. This helps me be very concious of every food choice I make.

Lisa - I like your forthright style of expressing yourself and find your information and advice so helpful.

Just from my personal experience, when we first started this forum, I got grilled by newbies and other members, simply for recommending that newbies read the book first! If you can't afford it (as they stated), then go to your pulic library and borrow it. I never understood what can be so offensive about such simple advice, and still don't. I'll gladly dish the same advice, even if someone thinks it's offensive, strong, or too personal, it's NOT!

Other sound advice (that some newbies don't like/want to hear) is also to follow the plan as written first, before you start tinkering with it as an expert. At least it will give you some benchmark results to compare your "tweaks" with later, when you have given it some time to see some results.

I always admire those who are willing to support others by saying what's right, not what newbies want to hear to make them feel good for a little while, and let them go down the drain eventually and say (like many do) "I tried low-carb, and it doesn't work!".

As long as the newbies advice is given politely, with no rudeness or sarcasm, then if someone think such simple, straight forward, recommendations are "strong", "offensive" or "rude", there's not much we can help them with to not get offended, and the support would be "cosmetic feel good", and not the honest "real" support.

My own rant :)

Wa'il

Group hug......................
 

WOW!!!
This room is tough! :bash:

what about those that haven't been successful
 

I"m one of those people that tried doing atkins in its original method. I didn't lose a pound during induction. I gained 2 pounds. I lost no water weight. I was drinking tons of water, no cheese, no artificial sweetners. eating till full, taking supplements, no alcohol, no nuts, no bars, no caffeine, always under 20 grams of carbs. I excersise 5 times per week too.

I wasn't really counting calories till the third week, when I realized I didn't lose anything. No inches or pounds. I feel frustrated now. I feel I might need to tweak the ratios. I fear I may be Hypothyroid. I don't know why I can't lose. Its my second time on the diet and its leaving me stumped big time.

I think we're all different and not everyone can do the diet in its original form. But we all agree that keeping carbs low is essential . As long as we have that in common, isn't that the most significant thing??

Leora

I hope your ok. I extend my prayers for your husband and all those who have gone to fight for democracy. Please try to keep positive and have faith that things will work themselves out. Many of us are under great emotional turbulance because of this political mess we are in. We must stand by one another and unite. We're stronger together and we're less likely to fall apart if we ahve someone next to us to listen. Be well Leora, and hope to hear from you soon :)

Piera

And you shouldn't have to.... isn't that what everyone else does? Give their own perspective? Like Wa'il says, as long as we're polite and not personally attacking someone... that's what support is.

It seems that as long as it's an agreeable point, everyone is fine...but when you have to correct someone or give the facts on something...suddenly there's controversy.

In the end, people will do what they will...but those posing questions about something new to them shouldn't be so taken back by a straight and well-intended answer.

Yes, after trying a plan like Atkins as it is directed in the book, if we need to make adjustments, great. But I do agree that reading the book and adhering to the principles ought to be FIRST...

Sounds like a good topic to discuss, and I'm glad the rough spots seem to be smoothed out! Yes...group hug... :bhug: :bhug: :bhug:

Lisa, When I read your original post I was in FULL agreement with you and still am. I think that a newbie should give the diet a full three months AS WRITTEN before tweaking because it takes at least that long for your body to even begin to make some of the radical repairs necessary. So that's my $0.02 on that issue.

Being a part of this forum and absorbing so much of this wonderful information is a two-edged sword for newbies. It really is too much to absorb or even understand until you've become very comfortable with all of the theories presented. It's a simple case of information overload. Newbies are in the unique position of coming off a fresh reading of Atkins all pumped up that they're going to lose 50# in 2 months.... and freak out thinking they're doing something wrong if they stall out after induction. In reality they're perfectly normal. But they see others tweaking away...not really understanding why...they just see that it's the thing we do.

There are two realities here:
1) Newbies often stall out after induction. They panic. But they should still stick with the plan as written for 3 months or even longer to give their bodies time to adjust.
2) Long-termers often stall out after a period of time and need to tweak here or there....this is a painful and tedious process sometimes!! We start trying a million different things, and hop journals and gym logs to discuss our latest strategies.

Newbies see long-termers tweaking and they think this is the thing they need to be doing....when in reality, they just need to do the program as written to see if it will work for them...because if it does, it is a THING OF BEAUTY! Give it a chance. Be patient.

Gotbeer



You have hit the nail on the head. Add sugar to that group. I know I'm a sugarholic and have finally understood that I have to treat sugar as an alcoholic treats alcohol. Never!

Since I'll recognized it and have no cravings (thank you Dr. Atkins) I have no intention to ever get back into sugar again. I've read some of the threads and journals and know a binge or even a cheat, could set off a multi-month frenzy of eating nothing but sugar.

I'm losing slowly enough not to consider falling off the wagon. I'm going on vacation next month and I'm bringing my own deserts. Cheesecake of some form that's for sure. So when my family has ice cream I'll have cheesecake, and who will be healthier? Me. :)

Magic

:wave:

This is a difficult journey for us all....new and old. Most of us are at a point where we'll try anything to get rid of this damned weight!...I don't think anyone means to "attack" anyone else. They are just trying to share what works for them.

But, I agree, follow the plan faithfully, give it a chance. Then, tweak when necessary. There are so many things that influence our weight loss....medication...health problems, etc. I went for 4 months with no loss....and stupidly went back to eating "normal"....gained it all back + 5#.....But, I'm back! Not just for the hope of losing weight, but for the benifits of LCing.

Leora, my prayers are with you, you've been through a lot. Your emotions are raw right now....Just try and stick with the program. And, don't leave the forum. We are all here in support.....and believe it or not, especially LisaK...she has a lot of good advice to give. I'm sure she meant no harm in giving her 2 cents....If she didn't care, she would not have said anything.

But, I must admit, it is irritating to read posts that are filled with "cheats" and not reading the book, etc. then wondering why it's not working, after 1 week...or "I'm in a "stall" after only 3 weeks because they haven't lost anything in a week! Which means, they have not read the book and the information critical to the "diet"....Very frustrating to those that are going by the "numbers" have a lot of weight to loose...not just 10 #...and still not losing. Like they keep saying, this is a WOE for life...not just for weight loss...but for quality of life.

Leora Sorry to hear about your mother and your husband. These times are stressful for a lot of us. My prayers are with you for your family. I really do not think that Lisa meant in any way to offend you personally. She was just trying to state her opinion as to why some might not be losing weight but I don't think her intention was to offend anyone. I find her information pretty helpful. I know that I like to get as much information on more experienced Atkin's dieters as I can. I always have a million questions. She does not seem mean spirited at all and if you look at a lot of her posts she encourages newbies...I know she did for me! :) Anyways, I hope you visit the site again soon and again my prayers are with you and your family.