Atkins 72?
 

:q:
Anyone still around that is following the original Atkins 72 induction guidelines? I did a search and found a group that no longer updates, and thats it. Anyone? *crickets*

Hey, Nordic and welcome. Many are following Atkins 72 on this forum, but they may refer to it as something else. I made a personal decision years ago that I would remain in induction permanently, as it helped quite a bit with improved health, lower weight, and more energy. "Why increase the carbs?" I reasoned. So, I've been maintaining as what I once referred to as a VLCHFKD (Very Low Carb, Higher Fat, Ketogenic Diet) state. I now refer to it as keto or VLC. I've increased my protein, tempered my fat consumption, and still maintain my health and weight using this approach.

So, when I say very low carb, I'm staying around or less than 20-25 carbs per day depending on the day. I think Atkins induction makes sense for those of us who have experienced carb addition in the past, yes, it's a real thing. I just made it my permanent WOE (way of eating). You'll find many on this forum who have a very similar WOE with interesting variations. We tend to find what works best, and it's an individual thing in many cases. Enjoy the group, as there is lots of good information shared here.

Hi, Nordic Fox :wave: I have found that Atkins 72 induction works best for me. Keeping carbs to induction level is my best strategy for overall health, reduced joint pain, reduced cravings, and more stable mood and blood sugar. I have reactive hypoglycemia that is only an issue when I try adding even a few more carbs, especially berries. Teresa

What Rob said. :) I add TheraKeto to my Atkins 72 label. I try to keep my blood ketones between 1.5-2.5 mmol/L to ward off aches and pains and keep my brain from calcifying.

Okay that's awesome news. Thanks everyone :)

Hi, Just Watched a very recent video by Dr. Westman who co-wrote the last Atkins book and he said he follows general low carb and he feels that keto is not necessary and can be problematic. Its really only used therapeutically for seizure control and he feels there is not enough evidence/studies to prove its more effective than Atkins. I know I have a ton of difficulty trying to follow it. I feel lousy on keto even after months of being on it.

I understand. If ketosis makes you feel bad after the initial break-in time, I can see that it would be difficult to continue.

However, Dr. Westman isn't the only doctor out there, and there are others who tell us that Ketogenesis is good for all neurological disorders.

Drs. Bredesen, Wahls, and Perlmutter are doing groundbreaking work with Ketogenesis to treat Alzheimer's, Multiple Sclerosis, and Parkinson's respectively.

Just don't give up.

Agree with Glenda. I've been burning primarily fat for energy for many years as opposed to glucose other than the small amounts of glucose from the very few vegetable carbs I consume and that produced by my metabolism. I eat a very varied and rich diet. I've found this WOE very reasonable to maintain. My health has improved over the years, as I'm now approaching age 69 no longer needing any prescribed medications. It's important to find how things work for you, and while I have the utmost respect for Dr. Westman, he is simply one voice on the topic. Having been in a ketogenic state for many years by making adjustments and course corrections along the way by learning from experts including the many good people on this forum, I can state confidently that keto works and works very well.

That being said, there are many ways to construct a low carb lifestyle that works for you. Having a thirst for and consuming related knowledge serves you well in achieving your goals. Be willing to experiment along the way as you continue to construct your eating lifestyle.

It is somewhat individual too. I stay in ketosis up to about 35-40 carbs but it only works if my carbs are coming mostly from fresh veggies. I can't get away with the processed stuff or too much dairy. I lose and feel best at between 25 and 35 net carbs per day and my macros are not the typical keto or Atkins either. about 50-55% fat, 25-30% protein and 10 - 15% unprocessed veggie carbs (for the most part)

Totally agree. Each body has different requirements. We can't see what is going on inside, which is why individual experimentation (n=1) is so useful.

There are on plan foods that I crave. While I can eat them in moderation and not gain, those foods keep me from losing. Dairy and nuts. Oh how I miss dairy!

I can't lose either with dairy. I have to severely limit it or avoid it all together.
I know a lot of people do well on strict keto. I can't seem to get out of the 'keto flu' after months on it. I increase my water, salt, potassium, drink broth, do all the recommended fixes and I still feel lousy.

Glenda, I thought I was crazy because all these folks could eat dairy and mayo and nuts and lose like crazy but it never worked for me either. I finally did the candida elimination diet after reading the candida section in DANDR and discovered a lot of triggers, many of which were "safe" foods.

tree nuts, peanuts, eggplant, pumpkin, mayo, most dairy - just a lot of things that when you have a little of several of them meant yoyoing the same 10 pounds all the time. Love that so many of us have become so much more aware of our bodies' individual needs to find a WOE that works

Just throwing my voice in here - I can only really lose weight when carbs are very low. Meat & eggs low, lol. I can maintain by adding low-carb veggies & a few nuts & dairy. If I add anything more than that, I'll gain weight. After a long health struggle w/ medication etc I'm back to Atkins '72 to lose the weight & hoping not to have to lose it again. (Prednisone is the devil)

Just Jo hasn’t posted since last year, but for many years, she maintained a Buddy Group for Atkins '72. All the rules summarized, recipes, great info. Click on the Blue link In her signature, for all Atkins ‘72 plan info needed in one place.

Here's the last post I found for it:

https://forum.LowCarber.org/member.php?userid=160283

Dr Eric Westman did his clinical research with the diet Dr Atkins used in his clinic...not what ended up in the books, even the ones Dr Atkins wrote. Still used at Dr Westman's clinic at Duke.

https://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=471186

https://www.dietdoctor.com/se/wp-co...starch_diet.pdf

Thanks very much, I appreciate that!

This is the kind of post that I can sink my teeth into. I do the same with some exceptions that crop up every week or two.

:thup:

Hi what does DANDR stand for please?

I just watched a recent video by Dr. Westman and he said if you are experiencing weakness and tiredness that you need salt and to add 1-2 cups daily bullion again. When I did that I felt a lot better. I thought the bullion was only for the beginning of keto.. I guess not.

Also got totally off dairy again.. and I feel much better, more energy, no bloating.

Dr. Westman is one of the few doctors that trained under Dr. Atkins. I really
like his way of following low carb and suggestions. I've considered going to see him at Duke in his clinic.

Mayflowers, DANDR stands for Dr. Atkins' New Diet Revolution, published in 2002.

That's fascinating, Jey!
I wonder now, why the diet Atkins used in his clinic is not the same diet he recommends in his books. Did Dr Westman ever explain this to you? Did he share the differences and the rationale behind the diet in the books?

There is a difference between clients/readers. The people who choose to become patients at a clinic are usually morbidly obese, diabetic, have serious diseases. It is often their last resort, the diet Has to work and so is strict. A book that sells millions of copies should also appeal to the 30 yo mom who needs to lose 20 pounds postpartum, and it includes a range of carb levels starting after 2 weeks. Jackie Eberstein showed Dr Westman the strictest food list and rules for the obese patient, basically stay at induction level..no "climbing the ladder" or adding carbs as in the 1972 book. That became the diet handout for his first clinical trial.


As I was scrolling through Jo's quotes, with all the protein fat % arguments in the keto community...this one popped out.

Thanks for your prompt reply Janet. It makes sense. I appreciate your looking up the data.

Is the 60:40 ratio calories from protein/fat or weight of the protein/fat?

That's calories. Quote is from the first page of the chapter "Steak and Salad" diet. A 4oz. beef ribeye when you do not eat visible fat is 60:40, about 140 cal from protein, 90 cal from fat, 0 carb. The new keto trend of pounding the fattest cuts of meat, adding more butter, was/is not the way Dr Atkins/Westman designed the diet. Only 230 cal, plus a "biologically zero" carb salad, makes a filling dinner

Oh! ok thanks! :)

Just a quick note from me again - I do best when I stay at '72 induction levels. For me, it's the nuts & berries that stop weight loss. Seems so reasonable to be able to have a handful of nuts or a few berries, but - nope. LOL! As soon as I start adding in anything other than meat and eggs, I start getting hungry & I stop losing weight. I'm hoping to be able to keep the cream in there, and have lost 2 lbs this week already. Historically, I've lost 1.5 lbs per week on meat/eggs, with a greater loss in the beginning, so hopefully this will continue. :) If it does, I could be back to normal by Christmas, hurrah!

I agree. I can't lose eating nuts and berries either. Also, I cannot tolerate dairy anymore.. as much as I love cheese, I cannot lose weight eating it and I don't feel well. Very tired and bloated all the time. depressed. I went off dairy again and I feel alot better...though I miss my cheese omelets.. :(

I will stay off fruit as much as possible and nuts until maintenance.

Doesn't it seem like a shame that as time goes on, there are more and more things you just 'can't eat' - I remember being 20 and eating anything/everything and never feeling sick or bloated or tired. Now - I eat a cheeseburger with a bun and OMG I feel I was hit by a truck for days.

I was just thinking that too, when I see tv shows and they're eating muffins and cookies.. I used to eat like that and was 140 lbs at 5'7. Now forget it. I can't tolerate any of that anymore. sucks.

I know!! Exactly!!!! (literally, exactly, I'm also 5'7) I was 130-140 for my whole adult life until all of a sudden I wasn't in my late 30s!! Now in my late 40s andso frustrated. I feel like the # of foods I can eat while losing weight is dwindling. 1st week I lost 2lbs w/ cream in my coffee, 2nd week, I gained it back. I'm afraid I'll have to give it up, and it's so frustrating, bc it takes SO much effort to lose the weight, and there's no end in sight. *crying emoji* (There's no crying emoji available so I pretended there was one, haha)