Any Credence to an 8 month window?
 

This week I met someone who had under gone a gastric bypass. She has lost 120 pounds and would like to lose another 20. Its been 8 months. She told me that the doctors told her that she would lose 90% of what she would ever lose during the first 8 months. She's a little disappointed because her weightloss has stopped.
I am at the weight now (198) that I was at the 8 month point. I've gained and lost 8-10 pounds over the past 6 months and have not been able to maintain at the lower end even though I've remained essentially on induction level carbs and for the past several months I've tried to keep my calories lower 1400-1600. I'm wondering if there is something to the 8 month window for all weightloss. If I'd known, I would have been more vigilant during those early days, especially if I'm destined not to lose anymore.
What do you guys think?

Fishie, I think that while that may well be true for the gastric bypass surgery, it is NOT true for this way of life. We have folks here who have been following the low carb way of life for more than two years, had significant weight to lose, and have been losing slowly but surely the entire time they've been on this way of life.

I think some of us get discouraged after being low carb for quite awhile and seeing slow losses. I'm a very slow loser, but I feel so much better because I'm eating better than I ever have, so I'm sticking to lc just for the health benefits alone. I know I'll eventually lose the rest of this weight, I just have to be patient with myself. After all, I'm very short and I'm over 50 so I can't expect miracles to happen as quickly as they did in my youth.

Here's to you kiddo - enjoy all of this delicious food we have on this way of eating and let your body balance itself out.

shortstuff

I had gastric bypass surgery in 1999. I heard it was a year, not 8 months. And it's a general idea, not a set in stone, concrete rule. And it's not that you can't lose more after, it's just that statistically, most don't. That's a subtle, but huge difference.

The problem with statistics is that sometimes we think they mean there is a cause & effect relationship when there is really only a correlation.

So it's probably not that after 8 months the gastric bypass (or low carb diet) stops working, but it's probably other reasons that co-incidentally generally happen around the eight month mark that cause the weight loss to slow. Like boredom with dieting, or stalls, or decreases in metabolic rates resulting from months of low-calorie eating (starvation mode if you will) or loss of motivation or a failure to continue to cut food or increase exercise to compensate for a lower metabolic rate due to a much lower body weight.

I know for me, I didn't know about or understand the insulin/fat storage/blood sugar/hunger connection (circle) after my surgery. So, while I lost 120 lbs in 10 months, after that I eventually started to have a few more treats, sugar etc, not knowing that I wouldn't be able to control them and that it would trigger the carb monster again. 4 years later, I'd regained 80 of those 120 lbs, just from being addicted to carbs again. I was still not able to eat as much as I could before surgery, but I could eat a normal sized meal and that was all it took. It's not that I couldn't have kept losing after my 10 months, I think I could have if I hadn't had thought I could have a few extra sweets and that triggered my carb addiction again.


Valerie

Valerie and Shortstuff, thank you so much for your insight. It all makes sense. I definitely wasn't posting because I was considering going off this WOE, I'm way too commited and I know I would re-gain all the weight if I did. I guess I was just wondering if in fact there was a limit to how long you would continue to lose weight. One thing I haven't done is increase exercise, in fact I hardly exercise at all, so that very well could be why I am stalled in the this range. Thank you both for responding to this query.

I think attitude has something to do with losing too. I have been stalled for months now, gaining and losing the same 3 or 4 pounds. I have been careful to keep a food diary, so I know that I haven't been eating too many carbs. However, my attitude was terrible. "OH, poor me, I work so hard and don't lose, while my husband and daughter lose so easily!" last week I decided to lighten up and have a more positive attitude. I lost 4 pounds this week, with no other change (same number of carbs, exercise, and percentages of fat, carb and protein.) I don't know why it worked, but I'm happier, and so is my family.

There might be a limit, where your body settles naturally, but I think if you have spent considerable time overweight, the body has to figure that out over time, as well as letting your metabolism heal.

I didn't get to the weight number I wanted (I was headed for 135, but I've been 147 for months) however, I wanted to get into a size 12, and made it into a size 10. Which is a better deal, of course.

Another year of eating low carb, and I may lose more. I don't know at this point, but I think with continued eating right, moderate exercise, and maybe some relaxation about the process, there's no reason to think one has stopped losing if there are still reasonable amounts left to lose.

Have been reading journals here for more than a year, I remember literally hundreds of members who lost/lose even after 12-18-24 months. I know that this forum is not a scientific research group, but I think the sample is big enough to question this 8 month rule.

(Atkins mention that the average weightloss is 10 of the excess weight during induction, then 5%/month - it means an average of 18 months.)

The eight month rule... Is that anything like the seven year itch? ;) Seriously, I think Valerie is correct in saying that coincidentally people have difficulty losing weight after the first eight months on a program, for a variety of reasons.

I really notice that my weight comes off in starts and fits, and it takes me a long time to settle in to each new plateau. Each time I think I'm not going to lose anymore, suddenly I'll drop a pound or so. And you know what? Its ok that its slow going.

I'm always going to be eating this way since I've made a commitment to this WOL, and unless a truck hits me I've probably got fifty or sixty good years left! :) So there is plenty of time. Its about your health, its not a race.

And this is ME, the most impatient girl in the world talking! LOL

I think the 8 month window only applies to ones who have gastric bypass surgery....a friend of mine had that done and they told her the weight loss advantage for it has a window of 8-12 months... after that you can stop losing and even gain if you're not careful... I would never get that done... too dangerous and the effects are not permanent.

I don't understand why gastic bypass patients would stop losing after 8-12 months if they are eating small amounts....the body doesn't undo the bypass, after all!

But if you look at my stats I certainly look like someone who had a 6 month "window" to lose relatively easily, and then after that have had to scrap for every pound.

I'd suggest counting calories, it has foiled my stall and I'm losing good again. Stay low carb, but move into OWL and count calories. Yes, I know its a little passe, but heck, the body still responds by losing weight when you limit the calories coming in.

Probably last time I counted calories was a couple decades ago. Everyone has moved onto counting other stuff, points, carbs, fat, but my bod hasn't gotten the message and it is clinging stubbornly to ancient fads.

I was at the 8 month mark last July. My loss has definitely slowed but it is continuing. I have lost another 6 lbs in August. I have 12 lbs to go and I intend to get there. I also think that peri-menopause is jerking me around but it will be over soon.

I don't doubt that low calorie diets work. But I don't feel like that's what I signed up for with Atkins. You can eat low carb, lower cal and technically be on WW. I may do it yet but I think it is a bit misleading. Are the first successful months of low carbing a kind of bridge to get you to the same tedious low cal deprivation that everyone has always recommended?

I don't mean to jump on your advice Nancy. This is just a pet peeve of mine. Does low carbing have a metabolic advantage or not? And if so, does it wear off after an initial phase?

May 1st is my 2 years anniversery on Atkins. I've had stalls that lasted up to 8 months, but I always start losing again. I've lost 6 lbs in the last month. Don't worry, just persevere is my advice. Nyah Levi

This is an excellent observation. This is precisely the reason we see so many studies floating around that "show" high-carb diets are good for this, low-carb diets are good for that, or cause such and such problem, blah blah... it is so easy to use statistics to support a hypothesis by finding correlations somewhere, and without poring over the actual journal paper there is no way to know if all they had was a correlation, if it was weak or strong, or how well other variables were controlled, etc. There was also a great thread in the LC Research forum recently that talked about researcher bias.

It is unfortunately very common to take a dataset and fuss with it using a stats program, running different tests until you can come up with something from the numbers. It isn't really very difficult either.

It can be really confusing to pick through all this stuff. I refuse to put much faith in anything I read anymore unless there is other evidence to support it, and the conclusions don't contradict each other too much.

I thought this thread was interesting because in my weightloss on atkins I certainly felt like I had a window of opportunity that has dramatically slowed. The first 8 months on atkins I lost the first 74 lbs then it slowed and the next 2 months I lost 11 lbs and then after that it has come to a crawl and took 4 months to lose 10lbs.

So although I don't think my weightloss has stopped and I can't lose anymore, it just has been really slow.

I think I am one of those though that has to resort to the ancient art of calorie counting. :rolleyes:

I don't understand why gastic bypass patients would stop losing after 8-12 months if they are eating small amounts....the body doesn't undo the bypass, after all!



I never said it undoes the bypass... but the body adapts and adjusts to the bypass and starts to be able to function better again and also the person is able to eat larger amount of food if they stretch whats left of the stomach...one poster here even said that she regained weight after losing a lot from bypass surgery.

If the patient is eating small amounts then they would continue to lose... but there is an advantage other than eating small amounts from bypass surgery where what is ate is not all absorbed and this is what changes over time and improves making weight loss harder for the patient after the "window" is over.

It would certainly not be impossible for them to continue to lose after that... it just wouldn't be as easy.

"Low calorie" has certainly meant deprivation for me in the past whenever I followed low calorie/low fat programs. I can understand how anyone with experience with that form of dieting would be wary of adding calorie management into a low carb WOE. I would never want to repeat the cycle of hunger, deprivation, and being physically run down that was the kind of experience I had with low cal/low fat.

For me, low cal/low carb is a very different sort of experience. Sure, I am not hungry, but I don't think it's only a "hunger" thing. I think I'm am able to fuel my body so much more efficiently with low carb - even at managed calorie levels.

With my weight loss so far, I'd say that the low carb metobolic advantage does play out in both a feeling of sustainable energy through the day as well as significant weight loss potential without consciously managing portions. For me, the weight loss part tapered off after a while and I think that's most likely due simply to the fact that my size changed to the point that it matched my LC portions of the time. Even when my weight loss ground to a halt, I certainly had the low carb benefit of a kind of robust health that I've never been able to achieve with low fat. (Low fat actually caused some horrible connective tissue problems for me.)

I'm curious to see how other people progress in their weight loss and whether calorie management is a tool that can reignite the weight loss part of LC for people who's bodies appear to have moved into a weight maintaining mode. That said, when I first started calorie counting I wasn't getting the same level of benefit that I'm getting now. My start was with Calorie King software that let me track intake only. I just had too much daily variation in activity level for that one to be really successful for me. Fitday PC lets me manage the three things (cals in, cals out, and carb level) than have the most influence on my personal weight loss. It also has tools to track mood, fatigue, etc and relate them to either eating patterns or even weight loss. I don't find those things influential in my loss (since mine don't vary) but I'm sure that for some people those would be major weight loss or gain drivers.

As I blather on and on in praise of calorie tracking, don't let that feel like I'm implying that you need to follow the same path. I think it is important for folks to understand why a few of us are so enthusiastic about this and in what ways it has helped so they can make their own decisions on whether there might be something in it for them. However, I can certainly really relate to your need to make sure that your weight management plan doesn't add disruption or distraction to the rest of your life balance. (That's very much how I am with exercise, and I have strong personal resistance to doing any exercise that I percieve as "artificial" and not in keeping with enhancing whole body functionality in normal life situations.) I think the only long term "win" for any of us is based on personal balance, and that needs to be defined individually.

Lynda

I have to say that, new as I am to this WOE, I already (a few weeks in) feel tons better than I have in years.

I also think that the point about the body adjusting to the bypass is very key. They have surgically mutilated the body, frankly, removing a section of intestine and making the stomach smaller. But our bodies are adaptive and the physical doesn't always have the same "goals" as the mental. The body wants to survive and also prevent starvation. Weight loss is not a "natural" goal to the animal side of us, so to speak.

I suspect that their metabolisms slow down some as the body adjusts to the bypass and also due to the small amounts they eat... Also by about 8 months they may get careless. And their stomachs do grow again, so it would take longer to get full.

I have dieted many times and actually took all this weight off at one point, when I was younger, with OA. I feel as though my body is rolling its eyes and saying oh not another WOE! So I am giving it time and patience to get used to this one. I know this is right for me - with Syndrome X I have no business eating sugar, pasta, and bread anyway!

I have considered the bypass many times and each time I have gotten to a big "NO" inside me. I have to do this myself. Even if it takes years and even if I don't reach the goal weight I would prefer.

Sometimes its hard for me to post because I know my stats come up beside my name. I am afraid that people won't think I know what I am talking about because I haven't lost much.

Anyway, just my 2 cents here!

Miriam

Miriam

You seem to know what you're talking about to me.

We have close to the same amount of weight to lose and the same goal....I wish you lots of luck in losing....I know how hard it is.

I found out a lot about gastric bypass because a friend of mine had it done last summer and all I hear from her is that "window of oppurtunity" stuff... thats the first tme I heard that phrase....she is always worried that her "window" has passed.... she explained the whole thing to me and I couldn't understand why anyone would undergo such an operation and be left with such a huge scar when the results are not permanent, before I had always thought that at least it would end the weight problem... but it doesn't necessarily....also she got down to 180, when she began she was a little over 300....and now her loss has stalled out.

Thank you everyone who responded to my question. I like hearing Bluesmoke about your 8 month stall since I am approaching that. I really do need to limit calories while staying on lowcarb. I look so much better at this weight than I used to and am wearing smaller clothes than when I was on other diets and weighed this much. I guess that whether I lose another ounce I'll never stop lowcarbing because its the only way that I've gotten to this point. Time will tell if I lose more.