Hi All!

Do you get the feeling that Dr. Atkins does not get personally involved with any of the marketing of his food products?

I believe that this is a separate subsidiary, and that it is solely run by business entrepreneurs. He probably gets a royalty.

How else can you justify the promotion and hype about all the LC delicacies that his company offers that I believe truly goes against the LC WOL, and his teachings. I am truly disappointed in that he allows this type of marketing using his name.

I have now read CAD, Dr.Atkins books, Power Protein, and very recently "Eat Yourself Slim" by Montignac (a Frenchman who has sold over 8 million copies in Europe, according to the front cover). Yet none of them have recommended eating "health bars" in their books.

I still feel strongly that LC WOE is the wise and healthy way.
But..... I am not certain that Dr. Atkins isn't "selling out".

If I am on the wrong track, somebody please give a correct direction.

Regards
Joe

P.S. I think it would be of tremendous value to all our members if we did a study and compared all the different programs and phases that have been recommended by the various authors of LC WOE and arrive at a consensus as to the proper carbs for induction, etc.

Great idea Joe! Why don't you start the research for the study? ;)

Karen

Karen, I only come up with the ideas......it requires a Committee to do this study.....

Only the most experienced LC WOE should be considered qualified to participate in this Committee.

After all I am only a novice in this WOL, having just started in mid March of this year.

Now that you have asked me, I would probably recommend, yourself, Wa'il, and Doreen, and others.

Regards
Joe

I will mention it to Doreen on Sunday, if she doesn't read this before then.

But Joe! Through study and teaching, we learn.

I think you're prime for Committee Chair!

Karen

I actually like the idea of a comparative study of LC plans. This will require help from many people, each describing their plan, since no one person can know them all. I'm comfortable describing, Atkins and PP, but there are many others plans that I don't know the details of, or have the time to read all the books available.

If each person following a plan would summarize the main points and guilines in just a few paragraphs, I can post an initial document, and request further corrections and addtions, until we get it right.

How does that sound?

Wa'il

Consensus of LC Plans
 

Great start idea Wa'il!

Can I make a few sugestions on the layout and initial procedure beyond your ideas?

1. To decide which Plans to compare, let's refer to our own Poll that lists all the published plans and layout a short initial list of headings across the top of the page. ie
Atkins-- CAD-- P.P.-- etc.

2. Down the left side of the page we can list by number the different questions.
Starting with, ie
1. Induction Time (min. period in weeks)
2. Max. carbs per day (in grams)
3. No. of phases in plan
4. Maintanence Time
5. Max. carbs allowed in maint.(in grams)
6. Etc. The rest of the questions can actually originate from the new inductees. Each new member has posted questions in the past that can actually be of value in this Consensus.

We can then fill in the apropriate answer under each heading.

I am certain a lot more questions can come to your mind, in order to do a comparison of the diferent plans.

Regards
Joe

Jo, great ideas are racing right now :)

Keep'em coming folks!

Wa'il

See Joe! You have become the Chair! ;)

Y'all probably know this, but ASDLC has a synopsis of quite a few of the plans. When I'm finished with Potatoes Not Prozac, I can do a write up unless there are some lurkers out there who have experience with it and would like to give us a hand. I'm also PP babe although it looks like I'm following Atkins.

Karen

joe, i'm going to see you tomorrow and i'm really looking forward to it!!:D i think you should run with this joe!! you've got the picture in your mind! as karen said, you're already the chair! i love your plan! let's do it!!:D

Good plan there. I like it :)

Wa'il, I have already researched and summarised 4 such diets. These are:- The Harvey/Banting diet, the Stone Age diet (Mackarness), the Blake Donaldson meat-only diet and Atkins' "New Diet Revolution" diets. These are currently summarised in 4 pages of text as part of the guide I send out. I will send you a copy as an attachment to an e-mail to your private e-mail site. You will probably need to summarise it down even further for your purposes, but this could be a good start for this project.

Andy.

Excellent contribution! I now have something to work on, while members send in their entries.

As Jo suggested, these are the diets listed in our poll (minus the ones Andy provided).

If you follow, or are familiar with any of these diets, please post or send a breif summary of concepts/plan:

Body Opus
CKD
Carbohydrate Addicts
Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution
Insulin Control Diet
Ketogenic
Montignac
Neanderthin
Paleolithic Diet
Protein Power
Schwarzbein Principle
Sommersizing
Stillman Diet
Sugar Busters
The Zone

This should be an interesting collective project.

Wa'il

Wa'il, you should post this request in the Main LC forum. There may be a few lurkers (and non-lurkers) who would love to write about their plan.

Karen

Hmmm, I thought this is the main LC forum!?!? ;)

Wa'il

Wa'il you are doing a fantastic job on this new LC Consensus programme! Keep up the good work!

If Andy's comparison is dealing with other LC Plans ( which I was not aware of) should we not consider including them with our list of Plans, especially if we are trying to be of service to the International members?

Are you planning on publishing a treatise of each of the different plans in this Forum before you actually do a comparison list?

Can we get volunteers to do each of the plans?

I will volunteer to do Montignac, because I have his book right now from the library. But I need some guidelines as to the content of the treatise. Perhaps Andy's comparison would be a good guideline of how to start.

Regards
Joe

Hi Joe,

All LC plans are welcome to be included, even the ones Andy covered (read hist post listing all 4 of them).

Great to have you cover Montignac. Eeach member has the option to post their summary of their chosen diet on the forum first, or email it to me (I prefer posting to the forum, but I perfectly understand if some members are too shy to do so).

I haven't figured the guidlines yet, please feel free to come up with some, or we can have each member write in their own style and choose the best entry in terms of organization, style etc.

Wa'il

Duh! I thought I was in Andy's Journal. Ground Control to Karen...can you read me! LOL!

What about posting it under a new heading then?

Karen

Definitly! Will do.

Wa'il

Wa'il , this is proving to be a lot more complicated than I originally foresaw, without an established guideline.

I thought that maybe Andy's analysis might be a way to start. But I don't have a copy of it.

(As an example of picking one subject from two books) Reading Montignac's "Eat Yourself Slim", I find that he is anti-sugar, and sits on the fence regarding artificial sweeteners. While Heller's "CA Healthy Heart Programme is anti-sweetener and sits on the fence about sugar. Who is correct?

Would it be simpler to start this "Comparison" by producing a thread on individual subjects and see how they differ with each author and get additional input from our knowledgeable Administrator and Moderators, plus any other comments from our members based on their experience.

When we have completed a number of threads on various subject, we can then compile them into a sort of manual, and put it in our archives.

Has anybody got any better ideas to help give this a kick-start?

Regards
Joe

In a comparison study, I don't think it matters as to who is correct. We're looking for differences, as well as similarities. It's up to the individual to decide what is correct for them.

Karen

Hi Joe,

I have been giving some thought to how I would tackle your task, given the variations in diet and presentation you will have to cope with.

What I think I would do is get members to submit their summaries, then edit them all, to give a consistency of style, presentation and emphasis. This would give you a document for each diet summarised. I would then collate the information from all of the documents into a single table, which is what members would see if they visited the survey. It would be an overall summary sheet, giving direct comparisons between all of the diets. Anyone interested in learning more about any of the featured diets could click on the row or column it occupies in the table, and this would throw the reader directly onto the whole page summary about it. In this way, there would be a lasting resource for the benefit of all, which does not waste any of the input but streamlines access to it or enables comparison between diets.

Excuse my jumping in here . . .
 

. . . but I've been watching this thread as I think its a grand idea and am anxious to see the summaries of the different plans.

I was re-reading my CAD last night so thought I'd try to summarize it here. First - a disclaimer - this is only a summary as I understand it. For full information, you need to read the book.

******************************

The Carbohydrate Addict's Diet [Copyright 1991]
The Carbohydrates Addict's LifeSpan Program "A Personalized Plan For Becoming Slim, Fit, and Healthy In Your 40s, 50s, 60s, and Beyond" [Copyright 1997]
By: Dr's. Richard F. and Rachael F. Heller

Summary of Basic Premise: According to the Heller's research, many carbohydrate addicts produce too much insulin. This excess insulin creates hunger and causes the body to store fat. This program is designed to reduce hunger and carbohydrate cravings - thus achieving weight loss - by controlling your insulin. Controlling insulin is accomplished by controlling the amount, type and timing of carbohydrates that are consumed during the course of the day.

Summary of Basic Plan: Two meals during the course of the day are of specifically listed low carbohydrate foods. The third meal of the day - the "reward" meal - includes carbohydrates. However, the reward meal is to include a pre-meal "craving reducing" salad and equal portions of protein, vegetable and carbohydrate-rich food [including any dessert you may desire]. Also, the reward meal must be consumed in its entirety within one hour.

Pro's: No induction period. No weighing or measuring of foods and no counting of carbs; just a simple list of "Craving-Reducing Foods" that are permitted during the course of the day [excluding the "reward meal"].

Con's: Some persons may have trouble holding back on the reward meal until they become adapted to the diet. The reward meal is not a permitted "binge"; it has specific guidelines that must be adhered to if the diet is to work.

Misc: Includes Carbohydrate Addiction test, information on carb triggers, reasons for and possible solutions to weight reduction stalls, additional weight-loss options that may be added to the basic plan and sample menus and recipes. Low fat options are included for those who must limit the fat in their diet.

**************************************

Feel free to use this summary as a starting point in determining what type of outline you want, information you need, etc.

Best Regards;
Sandy

Hi Sandy,

Wonderful! Thanks, I have learnt from your posting. It is clear that if this really gets going, so many people could benefit. Joe...

Well done Sandy!

I will procede with Andy's suggestion and create a temporary web page, with each user entry having it's own page, and a link to a forum thread about that entry for user suggestions, corrections and revisions, until we have a consensous that it is accurate, readable and useful.

Each summary will have the author(s) name(s), and contributors. When done, it will be added to our Tips page under the title "Which LC plan is right for me" or "Comparison of LC Plans" or the best title offered by our members.

I'll probably have that page ready later this evening with all available entries. Feel free to add your entry.

Wa'il

Keep up the good efforts Wa'il, Andy and Sandy!!!!

Well I have just finished reading another LC book which I find even more interesting than my CAD plan.

Here is a synopsis of:

Eat Yourself Slim by Michel Montignac

Copyright- 1999. (8 million copies sold in Europe- according to the cover)

PRO- The most fascinating part of this diet is that you do not count , carbohydrate or calories.

There are only two phases to this plan.
Phase 1.- You stay on this until you get to your ideal weight.
Phase 2.- This is the maintenance portion that you live with the rest of your life.

Carbohydrates- The foods are not shown in grams, but are given an 'index number' to show their glycemic index, for a comparison of 'good' and 'bad' carbs.

As an example here is a short list:
High Glycemic Index Carbohydrates:
Maltose (beer) 110
Glucose 100
Baked potatoes 95
Hamburger Rolls 85
Sugar (saccharose) 70
Corn 70
Long-grain rice 60
Bananas 60
Shortbread cookies 55

Low Glycemic Index Carbs.
Brown Rice 50
Sweet Potatoes 50
Oatmeal 40
Rye Bread 40
Raw Carrots 30
Dairy Products 30
Green Lentils 22
Fresh Apricots 15
Green Veggies < 15

Phase 1 - You eat three substantial meals a day plus snacks.
He also does not expect anybody to over eat these meals. You use only Carbs that have a Glycemic index from 0 to 35. Of course these meals do include protein and fats.

Phase 2 - You can eat the rest of your life from 0 to 50 which will maintain your weight.

For people who have high blood pressure or heart conditions, he does also recommend low fat, and low cholesterol foods.

I do not know if any of our members who have been on this Plan, but I am thinking of trying it, as CAD is too slow for me.

I like the idea of not having to count carbs or calories,

Regards
Joe

P.S. If I anybody has studied or used this Plan, we all would be interested in your opinions.

Congratulations Joe. Now things are really moving. Already there are so many interpretations or variations of LC methods. The more that are on file, the more likely this forum will be able to provide something for everybody, I reckon. I bet you never thought your idea would go so far!

Continuation of Montignac EYS
 

I neglected to include the following important information in the Montignac EYS synopsis that I began yesterday.

Vitamins, Minerals and Trace Elements

The author maintains that we should be able to get all our essential vitamins through eating fresh foods prepared by ourselves. As a result he gives detailed instructions on how to prepare them. (What happens if you do not have the time or facilities to do this?}

He describes "minerals" as calcium, phosphorus, potassium, sodium, sulphur, and magnesium. He describes "trace elements" as chromium, cobalt, zinc, copper and selenium that function in infinitesimal quantities.

He states that "a lack of minerals and trace elements can be harmful". He maintains that synthetic supplements are "not easily absorbed by the intestines".

He therefore strongly advocates the use of a teaspoon of 'beer yeast' or 'wheat germ' added alternatively each morning to a dairy product.

Sugar and Artificial Sweetener

Montignac considers sugar as "Poison", but he also warns everybody to "be careful of artificial sweeteners", as they could disturb metabolism in the long run.

Fructose appears to be his favourite sweetener, because he considers that it can be classified as a 'natural sugar', and has a low glycemic index of 20.

That is all I have to report at this time.

If anybody has any questions, I will be pleased to hear from you.

Regards
Joe

Hi all, I'm new to your group but I would be happy to do a brief summary of carbohydrate addicts, if no one senior to me wants to do it.
Darcy

Hi Darcy,

Welcome aboard! Check the announcement at the top of this forum, it points to this URL:

http://www.lowcarb.ca/atkins-diet-a...lans/index.html

This page should contain the latest submissions. CAD was covered by Sandy. However, we do welcome any additions, comments modifications to entries. So do check it out, and feel free to contribute any comments.

Thanks!

Wa'il

Very good summary of CA Sandy!
Maybe we could add that the Hellers are totally opposed to being in Ketosis. They feel it is harmful and should be avoided by eating enough carbs. I find it confusing that they take this position and Dr. Atkins takes the opposite.
Darcy