TKD & Smarties?
 

Hi everyone-
I'm still searching for the right diet and I've tried CKD for the past 3 weeks & it isn't working - so I want to switch to TKD, however, I don't quite get what carbs one should eat before & after the workout. I know they are discribed in the book, but I can't find good examples, and what's the deal with Smarties & Skittles anyway?

They're good TKD 'foods' (If we can call them that ;) ) because they are largely maltodextrin and dextrose - some of the closest sugars to the glucose your body uses. This means little work in metabolising them - they get into your system quickly and with minimal effort.

You can also use pure maltodextrin (bulk food stores often carry it)

Nat

Nat,

When you say pure maltodextrin, do you mean in powder form????

Also, do you have any other ideas/suggestions for things that contain pure dextrose? other than smarties, twizzlers??? I've been reading labels galore, and just finding sucrose and fructose:(

Also, is dextrose available in powder?

TIA :wave:

Yes, and yes (it is available up here - at bulk / natural food stores, and it's been found in asian grocery stores as well).

Not sure but I believe twizzlers are made with corn syrop.

Smarties (aka Rockets in Canada), sweet tarts, pixie sticks, skittles and I think someone mentioned candy corns (not sure on this one though).

-N

I found powdered dextrose in a bulk store--labeled "Corn sugar," I think, and with "dextrose" in small letters after.

Nat--Candy corns??? Really??? I LOVE candy corns! Gonna have to go check and maybe get me some! :yum: :)

Also, apparently candy necklaces and other similar (hard, pressed powdery) candies are made of dextrose and maltodextrin. Happy carbing!

Could you share a bit more of why you felt the CKD wasnt working for you? Did you not lose any body fat or was it another issue with the program?

Just curious........

No luck...here's what I've got so far:

Candy Corn: Sugar, corn syrup, egg whites, honey, soy protein, salt, artificial flavors, confectioners glaze, carnauba wax, artificial colors (Red 3, Yellow 5, Yellow 6).

From another source:
Ingredients: Sugar, Corn syrup, Salt, Confectioner's Glaze, Honey,
Dextrose, Gelatin, Artificial Flavor, Yellow 6, Yellow 5, Red 3

I'm gonna go pout now. :(

Candy corn is out then!

Found another: Willy Wonka Bottle Caps - dextrose based apparently.

-Nat

Those are SOOOO good :yay:

Thanks Nat & Alopex!!

I'll start looking tonite:)

why CKD isn't working for me
 

With CKD I found the way I felt going in & out of ketosis to be difficult, thus I prolonged the Carb-up "high" and cheated. I thought that perhaps the steady state of TKD may be something that would work better for me.
Feel free to comment because maybe I'm wasn't doing something right to even my carb high & lows.

That has been the hardest part for me on the CKD, ending my carb up. I found that planning to end it before I went to sleep worked best for me as I woke up the next day and went straight to low carb.

A TKD might be better for you if the carb high/lows are too much to handle. One thing Id suggest on the TKD is at least once a week eating over your maintenance level of calories in order to somewhat reset Leptin levels.

Best of luck with the TKD!!!

what do you eat?
 

If you don't mind, could you or someone give me your normal weekly calorie / carb/pro/fat break down, so I can see what you mean by eating a little extra?
Tx

Anybody please correct me if I am wrong:

Calories: It depends on your body weight. A general rule is that maintenance calorie intake is about 15-17 times your body weight and the optimal calorie defiiciency required to loose is about 10-12 times your weight but staying at the level for prolonged periods reduces leptin and eventually you will stall. KC suggested upping the calories once per week to replace leptin and prevent this stall.

Carbs: depends upon the plan. From what I understand CKDers should take in only trace carbs the first few days after the carbs up and then stay below 20-30 for the remainder of the LC cycle. I'm not sure on TKD levels. I stay below 20 each LC day.

Protien: Depends on body weight. I try to eat between .6 and .9 times my body weight per day.

Fat: This calculation escapes me... I have it set up in fitday as a goal but I can't remember how I arrived at this goal! I am pretty sure it has something to do with protien intake. Someone help me out here. My goals are to take in roughly 60-70% fat calories per day.

I found that the CKD parameter calculator is a great tool.. http://www.users.voicenet.com/~petr...ss/ckdcalc.html

Hope this helps!

Your weekly carb-up should take care of this problem. Typically, calories are above maintenance and they are composed of mainly carbs. Simple, high GI ones at first, which have the biggest impact on Leptin levels.

I used that calculator as well to figure out protein / fat / carb ratios for both the keto and carb up days. :thup:

HTH
-Nat

For fat targets just figure your total calorie intake for the day, then use .6 to .9 per pound for protein to figure that number, then figure how many carbs per day you want. Once you have your protein and carb goals add those calories together and subtract from your daily calorie total.

This will give you how many remaining calories need to come from fat. So if it was 2000 calories total per day and you had 800 calories coming from protein and carbs you would have 1200 calories left you need 133 grams of fat to meet your goal.

Did that make ANY sense :) ? The easiest way is just to use the link Jess provided.

For the TKD Ive heard most people try to keep as close to 0 as possible during the day so it gives them more carbs to place around their workouts.

Thats the thing Nat, she doesnt want to do a CKD because of the issues she had with the back and forth of the program. She is looking into a TKD so I suggested going over maintenance levels of calories on a low carb day to somewhat reset leptin.

Confusion seems to reign supreme today ;)

Above maintenance for a few days would work, unfortunately not as well as a carb up, but I understand the trepidation. Decreasing the calorie deficit and settling for a slower loss would also slow the leptin slide.

-N

Ok all you Smarties experts - While looking through the drink case at my gym today, I noticed a rack of those vending machines that sell small toys and candies to kids. Since I was looking for a suitable TKD drink (and getting annoyed at all the HFCS), I decided what the hell and read the ingredients for the brightly colored candies.

The sugar suspects are: Dextrose, dextrin and malto dextrose. That's the good stuff, right? The 'dose' looks like about half a shot glass full, maybe 10-12 pieces. Is it naive of me to think that hitting that machine once on the way in, and once on the way out, combined with half an LC protein shake would just about do it TKD/recovery-wise?

Thanks!

Friday

LOL I think that would work, Friday. Those are all the good stuff. The only thing I might change is the protein drink, depending how much protein there is in it. You might want to have a whole one, just to make sure.

Alopex

P.S. Now, I KNOW those BF numbers of yours CAN'T be right! ;)

ABB Pure Pro has 40 g protein and 2 g carbs. The carbs are from rice oglio-saccharides, which supposedly assist absorption. That would be 20 g before, and 20 after.

What, you don't think I have 213% bodyfat? :lol: I have about 135# lean, so the numbers are correct, however unfortunate they may be. Do note, however, that I reversed the weight and BF fields so that my goal progress is calculated from BF, not weight. ;)

I'd like to get into the 19-22% range ultimately, but for now the goal is just to be 'normal.'

Cheers,

Friday

Well I knew the numbers were reversed, but I didn't know for sure that you had done it on purpose. ;) Actually, I like the idea, since I'm more interested in a goal BF% than a goal weight too.

It just struck me when I glanced over, that's all. :)

I didn't realize you were having a whole shake around your workout. I thought maybe just half afterwards. What you're doing sounds good to me, though. :)

I know this question has probably been answered a milion times before (and I have probably read the answer a million times) but can someone clarify the good vs. bad sugars issue... I find myself confused after reading through this post. I appologize!

No appoly needed! It can be confusing.

Good sugars = those closest to glucose, simple and fast absorbing. Dextrose, maltodextrin.

Bad sugars = HFCS, Fructose and to a lesser degree table sugar (which is 50/50 fructose/glucose).

-N

Is table sugar "sucrose" or is that something else?

Yes, sucrose is table sugar, Jess.

-N

hope I got the right stuff
 

Nat,

After searching and searching for dextrose and Maltodextrin products around my area, to no avail, I finally did a search on www.google.com and came up with the following:

www.iherb.com, where I ordered Carbo gain (formerly Carbo powder), which is supposed to be 100% pure maltodextrin

and www.brew4less.com, where I ordered corn sugar (dextrose) powder

Just wondering if I ordered the right stuff? This is all new to me, I know, I should have asked you first before placing my order :rolleyes:

My plan is to mix them with my isopure protein shakes???? The can of powder I have says the perfect low carb isopure, with 50g of 100% Ion exchange whey protein isolate. 2 scoops is a serving, and it contains 3 carbs, but 2g fibers, so a net of 1g carb.

I have been doing TKD, with about 20-30g carbs before and after my workouts and cardio. But, want my carbs to be dextrose or maltodextrin, so it will be protein shakes (with the above) and smarties for me. and the bottle caps if I can find them :rolleyes:

If I ever decide to try CKD, do you think the above would work for the carb up days? sticking to the isopure before and after workouts/cardio during keto phase, and adding the pure dextrose and pure maltodextrin powders to the isopure powder shake during carb up phase?? just curious what your thoughts on this might be?

TIA :wave:

I realize you were asking Nat, but I hope you don't mind me replying too. :)

Your choices are good for your sugar, Jo. And for carb-up, you can certainly add dextrose etc. to your shakes. I do.

But you may find that you want a little more variety on weekends, after being restricted all week. I find that if I don't eat something I feel like eating (even if it *isn't* an ideal carb-up treat), I still feel pretty restricted.

Enjoy your TKDing! :)

I agree Alopex as usual:)

I have liquid carbs and protein right after my last workout before carb up then I pretty much use whole food as Im ready to EAT after the long week of low calorie and low carb.

Nothing to add to Alopex's answer except my opinion on your theoretical carb up. If you're worried that eating the candies might set off a carb binge then that might be the route to go. If you think you can handle the simple sugars you might want to find high GI foods you can eat just so you feel like you've had some 'food'. Many cereals work great and I used to have some Fat Free Fries w/ ketchup for my last few meals - after a while eating all those skittles, rockets and what not left my mouth sore. But that's just me ;)

-N