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-   -   low carbing and ww (http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=112911)

cherinfo Tue, Jun-10-03 14:47

low carbing and ww
 
Not posting this to start anything.

just want to give my opinion on something that i've been tring. I remember reading in the atkins book that people without a weight problem can eat anything that they wanted and they don't gain weight. Why because they had a balanced matabolism. Remember the picture of the scales?? Dr. Atkins explained that unless you did his induction portion of the diet you will never get it to balance out right.

Well, see we all have our certain weakness to a special food. I got heavy because I liked the taste and didn't have the willpower to stop at just one serving. Like the skinny people can. They don't deprive themselves, if the want it they eat it.

Wasn't Dr. Atkins plan to teach us how to eat correctly? Without having a weight problem. Itsn't it true that once you get your matabolism back in balance you can have fruit ,bread ,pasta ect? I don't mean gourge on it but have some if you want some, just make sure it's balanced with your other foods.

Like a low carb weight watchers. Add the points for the day of what you eat choose whole wheat bread if bread is what you want or a high fiber bread, Baked potato, corn ect. (ADD THE POINTS AND THE CARBS and remember you can subtract fiber from carb count) Have your eggs with butter and some beacon. ADD THE POINTS. If you want the fruit ADD THE Carbs and the POINTS. By the end of the day and by choosing wisely your carbs and points come out in range. Thus you still are losing weight your eating right and feeling full Plus Your getting your complex carbs, but within range of both carb count and point counts.

Remember Dr. Atkins got your matabolism back in order so your body should know to burn and not store. Well this is something that I am tring. I'll let you all know if it has positive results

lkonzelman Tue, Jun-10-03 14:53

The issue with this has to do with the fats and the feeling satisfied eating.

Also with Atkins you are allowed to eat whenever you are hungry which I found you run out of food with WW. At least that was my experience.

I think the hardest thing to wrap yourself around is the low carb truth - that fats with the absence of carbs - does not make you fat. They just fill you up and burn away...

Anyway... it took me a while to believe it but I spent 10 years low fat/low calorie dieting and kept yo yo ing while always being hungry and deprived and now i'm a couple pounds from a goal I once would have never dreamed possible.

All the best to you.

Debi Warne Tue, Jun-10-03 15:03

I think once you reach your goal you can begin to eat more carbs and more varieties of carbs in moderation, but to think you could ever eat anything anytime and not gain I don't see it. Unfortunately our bodies aren't the types that can do that and not gain.

I look at it like this -- I'm diabetic, I may be able to control it with diet, but it is something I will need to watch for the rest of my life. My symptoms may go away, I may have excellent control over my diabetes, but I know if I don't watch it and monitor it it can get out of control again. I will always have to watch carb intake and be sure I get adequate protein, that is what keeps my body in balance.

In learning to eat correctly and getting your body balanced out again I don't think you will ever want to live on those high carb food again, maybe have some once in a while (a birthday or special occasion) but not a daily indulgence.

I do think this way teaches you a lot about yourself and how your body acts and reacts to certain foods and now you are learning just how good you feel when you eat to fuel your body and not eat out of emotions (well, that is what I'm learning anyway).

I have to watch and will probably always have to watch how sweet effects me, even if it is a legal sweet it can set off the craving in me to want to eat it until it is gone, so from that I have learned that I do better without the temptation. For me it's an addiction that will always be with me, but I can learn to live with it and I can learn to control it and be healthier for it.

I'm glad you are thinking about these things, it shows just how much you are learning through this process, made me think of what I've learned and that is never a bad thing.

Debi

LadyBelle Tue, Jun-10-03 15:04

During the maintanance phase some people can have whole grain breads and so on. It all depends on what your individual carb tolerence is. When you know that, you try to have good carbs such as veggies, fruits and whole grains but stay within that amount so as not to gain weight. Some peoples can be as high as 80-100. That means as little as 2 bagles, or a ton of veggies, fruit, and LC bread.

cherinfo Tue, Jun-10-03 15:13

I'm not tring to stay away from fats. Oh I do love them and I believe the choices are great. I talking about when I feel the need for that potatoe with my steak. Or the toast with my eggs. If I add up the points for the steak and the eggs and add up the carbs because I wanted that potatoe or the toast by the end of the day it equals out. I didn't over do it but yet I still stayed in control and in range of both Atkins and ww and oh I have not wanted any of those mentioned above today. May not want it for tomorrow . It just something I needed to experiment with.

Brandon Tue, Jun-10-03 15:30

I don't want to come across as rude, so if I do, I apologize.

It seems to me a little bit like your trying to justify eating some foods that you miss, by using another diet plan on top of a low carb plan..

I guess you could always try it, but I'd be scared to death to gain back what I've already lost.

motis Tue, Jun-10-03 15:39

When you reach maintainance, you CAN have spagetti, or a piece of bread or whatever it is that you desire as long as you are staying within your CCL. But you should still keep in mind that this is a WOL and you have to limit yourself accordingly.

Honestly, I dont know WHAT I'll do when I reach maintanance. I think that I intend to have that occasional donut, but It's going to be a VERY rare treat for me.

~Angi~

cherinfo Tue, Jun-10-03 15:55

Brandon

No apology needed. I understand where your coming from :) . I just know me. I have been on and off Atkins many times. It works but.......I can't do without for the rest of my life so I am tring to learn a way to control my eating by following Atkins and a low carb version of ww. I even read somewhere that ww is finally coming around to it. It's just my way of controlling my weight without going off the wagon again and that's because i deprived myself. so I hope it works. I'm within range of carbs and points since I started. I don't alway look up the points because i follow Atkins mostly.

Lisa N Tue, Jun-10-03 15:56

WW is based on low calorie/low fat.
Low carb is based on higher calorie, high fat, adequate protein.
The two are really not compatable as they have nearly opposite premises; WW says cut the calories and the fat and you'll lose weight, low carb says cut the carbs and stop worrying so much about the fat and calories and the weight will come off.
If you're following WW points combined with low carb, I can practically gurantee that you aren't getting enough fat in your diet and probably eating too many high glycemic carbs. You literally can't have your cake and eat it too in this case. I'd encourage you to pick one or the other, but don't try to do both at the same time.
I'd also like to point out that if you're eating baked potatoes and toast, you're not following OWL. Those are foods that would be added back in during pre-maintainance or maintainance if they are ever added back in at all.

Thin people aren't thin because they allow themselves whatever they want. They're thin for many reasons, one of which is that they happen to have bodies that don't have a problem with carbohydrate metabolism. If you've developed insulin resistance, you can reverse it and get it under control with low carb, but if you go back to eating the way that gave it to you in the first place, it will come back. It does't just go away forever and let you go back to eating like those "skinny" people. It's a hard fact to live with, but that's the truth of the matter.

Quote:
Wasn't Dr. Atkins plan to teach us how to eat correctly? Without having a weight problem. Itsn't it true that once you get your matabolism back in balance you can have fruit ,bread ,pasta ect?


It's not just a matter of "rebalancing" your metabolism. Yes, low carb will help you get insulin resistance under control, but if you go back to eating high glycemic carbs that insulin resistance will soon come back with a vengeance along with the pounds.
Dr. Atkins' plan is a plan to teach us how to eat correctly. That means low glycemic foods in the right proportions for our bodies based on what they (not some skinny person) can handle. Fruits are not off limits during OWL, pre-maintainance or maintainance, but you should choose the lower glycemic fruits, not the higher ones. Breads might be workable during pre-maintainance or maintainance as long as they are whole grain and don't cause weight gain or carb cravings. Even pasta, if it's whole wheat, might be okay for some once they reach maintainance, but not a steady diet of it and if it causes cravings for more, it's something your body can't handle.
Don't kid yourself that you'll be able to just go back to the way you used to eat before you began low carb once the weight is off. The old adage is true: if you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you always got. If you go back to eating the way that got you overweight in the first place, going back to it will only cause you to become overweight again.

pcubie Tue, Jun-10-03 16:21

so, you want to lose about 25 lbs... same here. i've stayed between 135 and 145 for just about my whole life til i quit smoking 6 years ago. from that point on, the pounds began to pile on,
first 5, then 10, then 20 and finally, close to 30.
i have always adored eating and never really had a weight problem as i spent lots of time substituting cigarettes for food. of course that all changed when i quit.
anyway, this plan seems to work well for alot of folks as far as losing unwanted fat is concerned. for me, it took years to put on 30 lbs and i have a feeling that it won't take near that long to take it off thanks to this way of eating.
i do believe 100 % in what you say concerning the incorporation of fruits (since when are they bad for you???), root vegetables (full of nutrients for your healthy body), grains, etc. when you get to the weight you're comfortable with.
what NOT to do is pig out like we probably did before gaining the weight in the first place!
i love pasta... i can have 2 to 3 full plates of fettucini alfredo along with a caesar salad and loaf of hot french bread dipped in olive oild and balsamic vinegar. if i eat that much every day, not counting my other meals and snacks, i'm going to gain.
that's a no brainer! but, if i have such a meal once or twice a week and keep watch on my portions (weighing, measuring), i'm going to maintain my weight. unless you have some metabolic or physical problem that causes you to pile on fat like there's no tomorrow, eating just about anything you want (whole, natural, unprocessed foods) in strict moderation should keep you where you want to stay.
of course, i'm speaking for myself and not for those that have had serious weight problems for reasons OTHER than constantly eating & stuffing themselves like i did.... if it tasted good, i'd go for quantity!
for those folks, the low carb/high fat way of eating is probably their only way to a healthier body and they may just have to stay true to this diet for the rest of their lives to keep things in check.
in a nutshell, we're all different and there's nothing wrong with trying different options to find what suits you best. if you want to incorporate the weight watchers mentality with the atkins way, more power to you... makes perfect sense to me ;)

gretchend Tue, Jun-10-03 16:21

sounds to me like you should check out CAD because it sounds exactly like it to me.

Rosebud Tue, Jun-10-03 16:37

Hi Cherinfo,

If you are more comfortable eating complex carbs, that's fine for you and I wish you well.

But this is a low carb site, where we only support the low carb way of life, not WW which as LisaN says is low cal, low fat and high carb.
What you are doing is not low carb, so I think you'd be better to find a WW bulletin board.

:rose:Rosebud:rose:

Lisa N Tue, Jun-10-03 16:52

Quote:
Originally posted by gretchend
sounds to me like you should check out CAD because it sounds exactly like it to me.


Not from what the poster said. From what I gather, it's eat whatever you're craving whenever you're craving it and count the points.
CAD allows a reward meal with carbs, but it has to be balanced with proteins and veggies (equal portions of each), ONLY once a day and it has to be eaten within a one hour time span. The rest of the day is strictly very low carb.
Not being able to stick with low carb because of cravings and feeling deprived is a pretty good indication of carb addiction and that's a hard one to kick if you keep feeding the addiction.

LadyBelle Tue, Jun-10-03 17:05

WW and low carb have one thing in common. If you go back to old eating habits and forget your carbs or points the weight will come back. Alot of lifetime members of WW end up gaining and going back on and off the plan. No temperary diet will keep weight off. To maintain a healthy weight takes a lifetime commitment to healthy eating.

cherinfo Tue, Jun-10-03 23:13

Quote:
Originally posted by Lisa N
Not from what the poster said. From what I gather, it's eat whatever you're craving whenever you're craving it and count the points.
CAD allows a reward meal with carbs, but it has to be balanced with proteins and veggies (equal portions of each), ONLY once a day and it has to be eaten within a one hour time span. The rest of the day is strictly very low carb.
Not being able to stick with low carb because of cravings and feeling deprived is a pretty good indication of carb addiction and that's a hard one to kick if you keep feeding the addiction.


I guess you must of misunderstood me. I didn't mean to imply eat whatever you crave and count the points. I mean if i want the bread with my eggs OCCASIONALLY then have it. same with the fruit. I'm not about to feel quilty because i had a piece of fruit or bread it's within my ccl. I was just looking through the points book which has to do with choices I do not choose low fat high carbs foods and then add the points. I choose to low carb :) what I am experimenting with is this: I CANNOT do without bread for the rest of my life or fruit or a baked potatoe (occasionally). So I looked through the points book that I had when I did ww and if you incorporate healthy choices, by that I mean no low fat no sugar but some complex carbs it falls within range of both. I'm not saying it's for everyone. But it's for me. It's better then feeling guilty because you had something you consider bad for you. You can honestly tell me you will NEVER eat bread or fruit or cave into a potatoe some time in the FUTHER. All I am doing is tryng to learn how to control my eating habits. Since when is fruit bad? As long as I learn how to eat right by choices and I do mean good choices what's the harm? and why bash it? I did my induction.

I believe i'm back in balance and I will not throw myself out again because I want healthy carbs. I will not choose refined carbs and count the points and say it's okay. I know better then that but I am truely being honest with myself and I'm learning how to handle those times when you want to go off the wagon. Isn't it better to eat the bread or the fruit? You still end up being within your ccl. As for points because I choose Atkins way to eat I was just seeing side by side what the two came up to. to my surprise they were both within range and I choose high fat foods from the points book. not high fat and carbs together either.

ravengal Wed, Jun-11-03 08:38

Your plan sounds similar to mine, Cherinfo. My plan is loosely based on the Sugar Busters concept. I eat between 30-100 carbs per day, I walk for exercise, my blood sugar is well under control, and I'm losing weight.

Rosebud: Isn't this a low-carb, not Atkins, forum? If my CCL is 100 and I spend some of my carb budget on whole wheat bread, pasta, or potatoes, does that disqualify me from posting here?

cherinfo Wed, Jun-11-03 10:17

Quote:
Originally posted by Rosebud
Hi Cherinfo,

If you are more comfortable eating complex carbs, that's fine for you and I wish you well.

But this is a low carb site, where we only support the low carb way of life, not WW which as LisaN says is low cal, low fat and high carb.
What you are doing is not low carb, so I think you'd be better to find a WW bulletin board.

:rose:Rosebud:rose:


Hello Rosebud,

I never said i wasn't low carbing . It's choices :exclm: I was comparing the two. ww's book has lots of foods that are high fat,without sugar. It's a learning experience

Lisa N Wed, Jun-11-03 11:04

Quote:
You can honestly tell me you will NEVER eat bread or fruit or cave into a potatoe some time in the FUTHER. All I am doing is tryng to learn how to control my eating habits. Since when is fruit bad? As long as I learn how to eat right by choices and I do mean good choices what's the harm? and why bash it? I did my induction.


Well..first nobody said that fruit was bad as long as it's a low glycemic choice. I eat berries and some melons when they're in season.
Second, I can honestly say that I probably won't ever have potatoes or pasta again; don't even miss them, and when I want bread, I eat low carb bread. Even that's only once or twice a week and the kinds that I eat are 3 or 4 grams of carb per slice depending on the brand. I have to keep my low carb bread in the freezer even with both my DH and I eating it because otherwise it goes moldy on us before we can finish it even in the refrigerator. With so many other great foods I can choose from and stay on plan, I usually don't even feel like eating even the low carb bread and I used to be a bread LOVER; made my own at least twice a week along with home made rolls and biscuits. It's not that I don't like bread anymore, but I don't crave it either because I abstained from even the low carb kind for several months before adding it back in.

The following is a list of foods taken from the Atkins website and they are arranged roughly in the order in which they should be added:

The Power of Five
These portions contain roughly 5 grams of Net Carbs. Food groups are arranged in the general order in which they should be added.


Vegetables
1 cup cooked spinach
2/3 cup red bell peppers
1 medium tomato
1 cup cooked broccoli
12 medium asparagus
1 cup cauliflower
1/2 cup chopped onion
1/2 California avocado
2/3 cup summer squash


Dairy
5 ounces farmer’s cheese or pot cheese
5 ounces mozzarella cheese
3/4 cup cottage cheese
3/4 cup ricotta cheese
3/4 cup heavy cream


Nuts and Seeds
1 ounce of:
macadamias (approximately 10 to 12 nuts)
walnuts (approximately 14 halves)
almonds (approximately 14 nuts)
pecans (approximately 14 halves)
hulled sunflower seeds (3 tablespoons)
roasted shelled peanuts (approximately 26 nuts)
1/2 ounce of cashews (approximately 9 nuts)


Fruits
1/3 cup blueberries (fresh)
3/4 cup raspberries (fresh)
3/4 cup strawberries (fresh)
1/4 cup cantaloupe or honeydew


Juices
1/4 cup lemon juice
1/4 cup lime juice
1/2 cup tomato juice



Most people find it best to add back foods in a certain order—what Dr. Atkins calls The Carbohydrate Ladder. Note that few people will be able to add back all these food groups in OWL. Those on the second half of the list tend to rank higher on the glycemic index and are more commonly introduced in Pre-Maintenance.

Carbohydrate Ladder
As you move from one level to another, add carbohydrate foods back into your diet in the order that follows. Your ability to add all the food groups back depends upon your degree of metabolic resistance. For example, someone with high metabolic resistance would probably not be able to add legumes back during Ongoing Weight Loss (OWL), while someone who is young and works out regularly might well be able to do so. Few people can add back all these foods during OWL. Adhering to this order tends to minimize blood-sugar surges that could reactivate cravings:

more salad and other vegetables on the acceptable foods list
fresh cheeses (as well as more aged cheese)
seeds and nuts
berries
wine and other spirits low in carbs
legumes
fruits other than berries and melons
starchy vegetables
whole grains



This is what OWL or ongoing weight loss is. I don't see potatoes or pasta anywhere on that list (although I suppose you could argue that potatoes are a starchy vegetable) and whole grains (as in whole grain bread) is last on the list of OWL to be added back in with the caveat that few people can add that back in during OWL. It's more likely to be added during pre-maintainance which is when you are within about 5 pounds of your goal weight.
Following a low carb plan isn't just about "doing your time" and losing weight. It's also about getting that carb craving monkey off your back so that you can keep the weight off without having to fight cravings all the time instead of going off the plan and feeding those cravings. I don't know about you, but I'm very happy to be free of food having that sort of power over me.
Going off the plan is one thing and most of us have done it (and regretted it afterwards), but it seems to me that you're really just trying to legitimize it by saying that you're combining WW with Atkins. If you're going to go off plan, the do it, call it for what it is, get it over with and get right back on plan again.

cherinfo Wed, Jun-11-03 13:17

Hello Lisa N,

Take it as you like.Say what you want. I'm losing weight ,I'm motivated. I'm excerising. I believe what I believe, You believe what you believe.
Yes, I agree not all people are alike but for those who are not Average who can go up the carb scale and still be losing weight and show ketosis. They need to learn.

This is right out of the Atkins book. ( my pg.228 )

WHAT IF I'M NOT AVERAGE?

IF YOU CAN GO UP TO 50 OR 60 GMS OF CARBS A DAY AND STILL BE LOSING WEIGHT AND SHOWING KETOSIS, THEN YOU HAVE A FAIRLY LOW LEVEL OF METABOLIC RESISTANCE. IN ALL PROBABILITY YOU WEREN'T AT ALL THAT OVERWEIGHT, AND STAYING PERMANENTLY SLIM ON THE ATKINS MAINTENANE DIET IS GOING TO BE A BREEZE FOR YOU. YOU'RE A PERSON WHO'S GOING TO BE ABLE TO EAT TWO SALADS, TWO HELPINGS OF VEGTABLES, AND PERHAPS A FRUIT DAILY AND STILL REMAIN AT A STABLE WEIGHT. IF YOUR CAREFUL, AND YOU FIND YOU DON'T GO INTO A WEIGHT-GAINING SPIRAL, YOU MAY EVEN BE ABLE TO HAVE AN OCCASIONAL POTATO AND SOME WILD RICE.


I believe I'm not average, and there are others just like me, but we must learn how to make the right choices, just like you. :) (although we may have more) What works for me may not work for you but were still suppose to be in this all together. Just wish luck and ask for updates to see how were doing ;)

Angeline Wed, Jun-11-03 14:17

You are being kinda hard on Cher. All she wanted to know is if you could apply a kind of point system like WW to low-carb.

Personally I think it would work but only with some major tinkering. Obviously, WW is slanted towards low fat/high carb so following their present guidelines is totally incompatible with low-carb. You would have to figure out how the point system translate in terms of grams of carbohydrates and then set appropriate limits corresponding to 20 grams of carb for induction levels.

Then after this intellectual excercise you would realize its pretty pointless. Because when it boils down to it, Atkins is a point system, just like WW. Except you count grams of carbohydrate instead of points.

So don't wrack your brain trying to translate one method to another. Just write down a big 20 in your diary and then count down, looking up the values (amount of grams of carbs) of what you eat. Except your idea of counting carbs as outlined in your first post would not work because bread, even even whole-wheat, is too expensive carb-wise. A single slice of bread would use up your daily carb allottement, leaving you to eat only proteins for the rest of the day. I don't know about you, but one slab of steak on a plate, is not my idea of a meal.


But I understand your predicament. The idea of going without bread forever is ...well not pleasant to comtemplate. I applaud the people who say they can give up carbs forever. Maybe I am just weaker-willed than they.

The best thing for you is to make careful choices, just as you would for WW. So buy (or make) low-carb bread. Choose low-glycemic fruits like berries. Substitue mashed cauliflower for mashed potatoes.... ect

I bought a book recently called the Low-Carb Comfort Cookbook by Ursula Solom. It's filled with recipes for bread, muffins, pasta, pizza ect...all low carb. You might want to give it a look.

Lisa N Wed, Jun-11-03 14:22

Quote:
were still suppose to be in this all together.


We are which is why I'm trying to encourage you to think about how your food choices are affecting not only your weight, but also what they are doing about carb cravings and Dr. Atkins mentions this several times (at least) in his book as well as in the quote from the website that I posted above. If what you are eating is causing you to continue to crave higher carb foods, it's only half a success even if you lose weight eating them, IMHO, because having to struggle with continued cravings only makes keeping the weight off that much more difficult.

pegm Wed, Jun-11-03 18:42

Unfortunately I loaned my Atkins books to someone so I can't look it up, but it was my understanding that each person needs to find their own critical carb level. I thought that some people have a very high level and can eat quite a lot of carbs without regaining weight and others will never be able to go above 30.

My DH lost 75 pounds doing low carb and improved his cholesterol to the point where he no longer needs meds. He is definitely a carb addict -- loved potatoes and sweets. He is 5'10" and now 145 pounds. He lost weight very rapidly on 50 - 60 carbs per day -- it seemed like he just 'melted'! Now on Maintenance he is up to about 100 carbs per day just to maintain his current weight. If he drops below that, he will start to lose, and he should not lose any more weight. He has added back whole grain breads (Natural Ovens 'Hunger Filler' with 7 carbs), sometimes whole wheat pasta, quite a bit of fruit daily, and occasionally he has a baked potato or brown or wild rice. As long as he sticks with the whole foods and avoids the processed, refined carbs he has no problem maintaining his weight. However, there is not doubt in my mind that if he would start eating sugar and white flour again his weight would balloon.

I, on the other hand, need to stick with 20 carbs per day to lose, and I doubt that I will ever be able to eat even the whole grains or fruits except as a rare, maybe once or twice a year, treat.

So, I guess that my answer would be that the maintenance carb level is very individual and there may be others like my DH who can maintain on 100 carbs per day and some like me who need to keep the level much lower.

Rosebud Wed, Jun-11-03 18:54

Quote:
What works for me may not work for you but were still suppose to be in this all together.

Yes, we are here to support each other, but the support is for low carb plans, nothing to do with the points counting to which you refer.

I repeat, this is a low carb support forum. If you wish to count WW points, I would suggest you may be happier on a board such as www.diettalk.com or www.3fatchicks.com

I wish you all the best.

:rose:Rosebud:rose:

Rosebud Thu, Jun-12-03 05:48

Quote:
Originally posted by ravengal
Rosebud: Isn't this a low-carb, not Atkins, forum? If my CCL is 100 and I spend some of my carb budget on whole wheat bread, pasta, or potatoes, does that disqualify me from posting here?

Hi Ravengal, This is indeed a low carb forum, where anyone following a published low carb plan is very welcome. :)

The issue with Cherinfo was about Weight Watchers, and Cherinfo's point counting. There is no need to count anything except carbs with most low carb plans, and not even that on plans such as Sugar Busters and CAD.

Cheers.

:rose:Rosebud:rose:

Raelaine Thu, Jun-12-03 13:58

Are we having a bad day or what?
 
So if we are low-carbing but not following a specific "published" plan then we are not welcome here? I have seen tons of people listing "Mod Atkins" or multiple plans in their personal synopsis. Everybody here and in other forums tinkers until they find the right mix that they can live with. Cherinfo is not talking about pigging out or joining Weight Watchers (and so what if she does); she is talking about comparing and contrasting different ideas and finding what works for her. Just becuase we are in the "war-zone" doesn't mean we should be asking people to find another board for expressing an idea that doesn't even run all that contrary to what others are doing. :mad:

lkonzelman Thu, Jun-12-03 14:05

Rosebud is just explaining that the support here is for low carb eating.

So lets say the common issue occurs with your "modified plan". You stall (as everyone on ever diet eventually does for periods of time) and you ask for help and support.

The people here are going to ask menus to try to help and the people on this board would offer you advice from the perspective of cutting carbs.

It's not that you aren't welcome, I think the issue here is that the support, advice and issues here are all related to low carb eating.

To be honest if I read your journal and saw what I consider high carb foods everyday in your menu I would avoid it. Not out of being mean or anything, just realizing we are doing different things so I couldn't help you.

Does that make sense?

Lisa N Thu, Jun-12-03 15:25

Quote:
Just becuase we are in the "war-zone" doesn't mean we should be asking people to find another board for expressing an idea that doesn't even run all that contrary to what others are doing.


I'd like to point out that Rosebud was not asking Cherinfo to find another board, but rather suggesting a couple of other boards where she might find better support for her hybrid plan. This board is quite honestly for published low carb plans only.


Quote:
I have seen tons of people listing "Mod Atkins" or multiple plans in their personal synopsis. Everybody here and in other forums tinkers until they find the right mix that they can live with.


True enough, but that tinkering is usually more along the lines of more fat/less fat, more protein/less protein, staying at 20 grams of carb after induction, but adding fruit and nuts, leaving out dairy, raising or lowering calories, avoiding all artificial sweeteners, etc... but all the while following the basic principles of their chosen plan. There isn't so much of a problem combining two plans such as Atkins and Protein Power because the two are very similar both in theory and in practice. Same thing with something like Protein Power or Schwarzbein. But trying to combine two plans that are completely opposite in theory like WW and Atkins is something we can't support because most of us belive that low fat/low cal is definitely not the way to go long term.
Nobody is saying that anyone can't lose weight or eat any way they want, but if you want to have support while following something like WW or the like, then perhaps this isn't the forum to be on because it will likely cause division and controversy rather than support and the other two that Rosebud suggested would be more helpful as they support any and all types of diets.

hysteria Fri, Jun-13-03 14:10

I do WW
 
for one reason ONLY - to weight in and show them that low carbing CAN work and it does not have to be all the prepackaged carbage that WW sells. They were even passing around a "Schwanns" booklet the other day. *shudder*
A handful of people, including the leader, know I low carb. She actually agrees w/ low carbing to a certain extent, but still insists on hocking those "Wow" bars :Puke: When asked "What is your secret", I tell them eating healthy, natural food and not eating all the premade crap, including Lean "Eat Me and You Will Only Want More" Cuisines

Sorry if this sounds crass, but I have to admit for all the years that low fat & calories helped me gain the weight, it is nice to show off what fat and calories can REALLY do!

Lisa N Fri, Jun-13-03 15:22

Beth...this is just a suggestion. If you're not actually following the WW plan and just using the meetings for your weekly weigh-in, you might want to take it out of your profile because you're bound to be challenged on it.
It also tends to confuse newcomers who don't know what you're doing when they see two plans in your profile that are nearly opposite in theory.

PaulInTX Sun, Jun-15-03 16:34

I'm one of the "low carb" do-it-yourself plan-types. I have about 25-30lbs to lose, and my wife is doing WW while I do a low-carb approach.

I have not done "induction", nor wanted to. It, to me, forces a change in too rapid and tough a way to change your eating habits for a lifetime. Rather, I have adopted the WW philosophy and related it to low carb. Meaning, that I have a carb target of between 50-100g/day, and eat accordingly. If I want a high carb food, I have to see if it would make me go > 100. If not, I eat it. I then know that, depending on the grams, what I can eat the rest of the day. It is modified eating behavoir just like WW. They use points, I use carbs as my "points". My approach is much easier than my wifes, because I can ALWAYS eat if I want, so long as I'm avoiding the carb limit I have set. She, on the other hand, is limited in points and feels bad if she goes over, or goes hungry. Neither of those feelings are, IMO, good for a long term way of life change in eating, but that is her choice and her approach (and it is working so far for her, but we are new).

anyway, just thought I'd chime in with a supportive email. Do what works FOR YOU, and combine what you can from those programs that work FOR YOU.

Personally I think that low-carb is the best approach, as it encourages a more long-term viable eating approach without feeling that you are missing *too much* :)

Good luck.


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