Foundation vegetable issues
 

So I've been trying to get my 12-13 grams per day of net carbs during the induction phase. I'm really struggling with this. There's no way I can eat enough broccoli and lettuce to get to 12-13 net carbs per day. I tried Kale in a blender, but it takes so much to get to the target that I couldn't drink it all.
I've been getting there with tomato sauce heated up like soup, but that's getting a bit old.

Does anyone have any tips or suggestions on relatively easy way to get to target goal of foundation vegetables?

Thanks!

The 20 carbs a day allows for cheese, cream, lemon juice, nuts, etc. You cannot reach that via greens alone at 3 cups a day. And that is ok.

two cups loosely packed greens, or one cup uncooked from allowable list.

does that help?

eggs have a 1/2 gram of carb each.
Thre carbs are not only coming from veggies

Thanks for the replies!


Perhaps I misunderstood. During induction, I was under the impression that 12-15 grams per day must come from the foundation vegetables, not cheese, nuts, or other sources. I just double checked the acceptable foods list and that's what it says.



Atkins Acceptable foods list

"Aim for 12-15 grams of net carbs from vegetables per day"

Does it matter if I do not get 12-15 carbs per day from the foundation vegetables list?

Should I only worry about staying around 20 grams per day, no matter the source?

I realize I should try to eat healthy and get as many vegetables as possible.

Thanks for all the help!!

pg 88 NANY foundation Vegetables I like
avocado
broccoli
cabbage - as in slaw
cauliflower
celery
cucumber
romaine
jicama
mushrooms
olives
green and red peppers
radishes
scallion
can all be added to the salad or used as snack.
This is the raw list
The cooked list includes kohlrabi - I prefer it raw
rhubarb etc

Also on the cooked list - besides the raw kistings are

snow peas
green beans
summer squash
zuchinni

If there is a specific vegetable you like, I can look it up for you

My limit is 20 carbs. Some days it's from zero to less than 10.

I've always considered the carb limit the maximum, not the minimum. I could be wrong about that since I didn't get the Atkins book decades ago.

Bob

Thanks for the reply.

I am finding it difficult to get 12-15 grams of carbs per day from the foundation vegetable list alone. I just can't eat that much broccoli (it works out to approximately 4 cups of cooked broccoli per day).

I can mix in other vegetables, but it seems to take a lot to get to the 12-15 grams of net carbs per day needed.

Are you getting 12-15 grams of carbs per day from the foundation vegetables?

Just curious for how you do it without turning green!

Thanks for your help!!

It's not necessary to eat the whole lot at one meal. Try spreading the carb load throughout your day.

Breakfast:
- sugar free salsa with your eggs, a few slices of avocado and a dollop of sour cream
- sliced mushrooms, or spinach sauteed in butter with a little chopped onion or shallot, fold inside an omelet with shredded cheese and/or crumbled bacon

Lunch:
- salads can be more than just lettuce, y'know ;) .. add sliced cucumber, radishes, cabbage, jicama or bean sprouts, avocado, olives or sour pickle slices, and a handful of cherry tomatoes
- homemade soups with vegetables .. creamy broccoli or cauliflower with cheese (puree till smooth), clam chowder if you like, substitute diced cauliflower and chopped yellow peppers for the potatoes and corn respectively

Dinner:
- chili or stew with meat/chicken and chunky veggies from the list .. tomatoes, onion, celery, peppers etc
- use cooked spaghetti squash or spiralized zucchini as a noodle substitute topped with meat and/or sauce
- stir-fries with snowpeas, broccoli, peppers, sliced onion, bean sprouts etc
- crackslaw (bagged shredded coleslaw) ideas here .. https://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=453302

Snacks:
- raw veggie sticks (celery, sweet peppers, jicama, daikon, belgian endives etc) with fatty dips .. sour cream, tuna/chicken/egg salad with mayonnaise, guacamole etc
- oil, vinegar & herb marinated veggies as side dish or snack: whole button mushrooms, artichoke hearts, blanched broccoli and cauliflower florets (or use frozen/thawed)


A lot of dishes I mentioned above, like soups and chilis .. can be made in a large batch, then store portions in the fridge or freezer to reheat for quick weekday meals. Saves a lot of time!


Hope that helps :rose:

Jessica, From the list of foundation vegetables above, choose the ones with the highest carb count, not the lowest. Amazing how quickly you can hit the 12 gm limit.

Cooking also increases the carb count - so try eating more cooked veggies.

Personally, I am not fond of broccoli. I prefer raw cauliflower which I dip in ranch dressing for a mid day snack. Or a raw kohlrabi.

When I could tolerate them, I loved making a Greek salad of onions, red and green peppers, cucumbers and tomatoes with crumbled goat cheese and Greek salad dressing.. I had to watch how much I ate. The carbs really added up. It's a change from broccoli.

Good luck

Doreen - these are great menu suggestions!
I am alsays so grateful when someone suggests something I can cook
I have no imagination when it come to creating a menu and cooking it, so your suggestions are pure gold!

Jessica, I started with the New Atkins book from 2010, with all those "foundation vegetables" and had the same problem. NANY and the current website Induction is 20g NET carbs. Dr. Atkins' earlier books were 20g TOTAL carbs.

Problem solved when I met one of the the authors of NANY, Dr. Eric Westman, a few months later. In his clinic at Duke, based on Dr. Atkins clinic, you only eat a Maximum of three cups of vegetables, as Ms. Aeriella lists. Here's the real clinic diet with 20g TOTAL carbs, not the Atkins company version: https://www.dietdoctor.com/se/wp-co...starch_diet.pdf

As Dr. Westman says, both can work, but net carbs is the OTC version, total carbs in "Prescription Strength" ;)

More Dr. Westman videos: https://www.dietdoctor.com/?s=eric+westman

Dr. B says 20 total carbs, too. He says if you really, really want to use net carbs, subtract only half the fiber, not all of it as so many people do now. The only time I subtract fiber is with a couple of really high fiber recipes I have - other than that I don't bother.

I have a vegetable 2-3 times a day. Sometimes it's nothing more than celery with homemade dip (those are my lazy days), but I usually have cooked greens with my morning egg & a salad at lunch. Even eating veggies 3x in a day, there's NO WAY I could eat 3 cups!

Wow, I didn't find it difficult at all but I was coming from a place where I ate a lot of vegetables to begin with. What was your typical diet (stuff you ate) before trying low carb? Were you eating mostly wheat and corn to get your calories?

Cabbage and Spinach were on my list of stuff on induction as well - but, like you said, these significant volume, especially raw, if you are not used to eating greens and other low carb veg.

Good questions tho, not sure I've heard it before here :)

PS, can you reference your "foundation vegetables" source. these can vary a bit from plan to plan, I think of what you're talking about as Atkins/Westman list?

I was eating a couple of small servings of vegetables per day. Yes, the foundation vegetables I mention are from the Atkins list.

It's interesting to see the comments on net carbs vs. total carbs. The Atkins info I've seen stresses net carbs, not total carbs. It would be easier to get to the 12-15 grams/day mark counting total and not net. Would my weight loss be the same by counting total and not net?

Thanks for all the replies!!

In my early DANDR book , the veggie list had check offs next to the veg I would eat. About 1/3- 1/2. I was a good eater....so I thought. Many years later I found that book again and checked off nearly EVERY veg listed. Living lc taught me to expand my veggie options.

As for eating enough..... net carbs or total carbs... it is whatever gets the job done. Dr A encouraged maximizing veg intake as long as you are dropping weight but understood many preffered Induction for a while longer.

Along the way we eventually determine our personal maximum carb levels.

olives allowed..like four.
berries allowed....those vary in carb counts. Frozen blackberries are nice to keep on hand.Easy to count out a few. And I like frozen cranberries... an aquired taste but important for gi health (Im high risk for colon cancer)

The berries with whipped HWC make a nice dessert.

As Bob said, its ok to fall short on some days.

The bottom line is ....is the food you are eating working for YOU?

Jey, thanks for chiming in. I am stuck - no weight fluctuation despite holding calories down and counting NET carbs - a la NANY.

So, I will now concentrate on TOTAL carbs. I was wondering what I could do to jump start the weight loss again. Thanks for the reminder.

Sometimes I think my fat cells get separation anxiety - I have had them so long.

Jessica, try total carbs and see what happens

At least you can branch out from broccoli

Was that pun intentional? :lol:

Broccoli is OK, but I'm not a big fan of it. I ate a lot at first because it was mentioned as a good LC food. But I really prefer cauliflower & other LC veggies. Life is too short (especially at my age!) to eat foods I don't care for.

Bonnie -the pun was intended for Jessica

Jey, in looking at the Diet Doctors meal plans, they say the plans contain less that 29 carb grams

I thought they would have offered meal plans at 20 grams or less

Preferably less if we are trying to stay under 20 gm carbs a day

Pesto is a great condiment... .6 grams per tablespoon..

rofl

I've been tryin one meal a day and a day of fasting to shake them up.

Time restricted eating can also break a log jam. Eat within 8 hours, for example, then no snacks or any food until "breakfast", what ever hour that is....

I like the Diet Doctor website - thanks Jey

On foundation vegetables - I like the way veggies have been divided - above ground (low carb) under ground (high carb)
Makes it easy for gardeners to remember.
Here is the list

https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/vegetables

Since you mentioned making a soup from tomato sauce........have you tried drinking a glass or two of V8 juice? I used to drink it a lot in place of fruit juice and it has vegetables and tomatoes in a juice form. Here is the link to the nutritional information.

https://www.campbellsfoodservice.co...etable-juice-7/


9 grams of carbs per 8 oz.

What a great tip! 9 grams in only 8 ounces! I notice the ingredients for the V8 juice contains carrots. Is that a concern?

Thanks for all of the great suggestions everyone!! :)

a carb is a carb.

Dr Atkins mentions that too much tomato can stall some people.... enjoy the V8, just beware. V8 is delicious!

Not to derail anyone, but if you don't like vegetables, do you have to eat them?

I think there were concerns about nutrition and the unquestioned "veggies are good for you" but if it is putting boulders in your path, see what works for you.

For me, plants are salad greens, coconut, cucumbers, olives, and berries, with some tomato sauce or cabbage. My system doesn't tolerate much fiber.

For me, it's actually more which carbs than how many.

We all fine tune. That is the key to success.

For me it's seasonal. I adore salads and a variety of vegetables during spring and summer but can only eat salads occasionally during winter. Not only do salads taste weird to me during winter...kind of tinny...but they don't agree with my digestion either.

I can do cabbage and greens during winter though.

The Epi-Paleo diet is based on such seasonal availability. Now the holiday season is over, I plan to go as zero carb as possible, at least for long stretches. I've only been doing this plan for a year, so I'm continuing to figure things out.

Always a moving target, too :lol: