How do you tell a diabetic?
 

How would I explain the Atkins diet to a diebetic (type II) that doesn't understand? I really need help with this one. It's my fiance's sister and she refuses to listen and I also have no idea how to explain it to her in the slightest. She insists that she needs carbs to stay healthy, if she gets low on carbs she will get sick. I have no idea about diabetes, I have read the whole Atkins book but am confused about the diabetes stuff because I never had to worry about it. Could someone explain it to me on here in simple terms and then I can print it and show her it or maybe just remember it and explain it to her? By the way she is very large, and has been dieting forever and drinks way more water than I do (I drink 120oz. a day).

I don't think you can convince her. It's her health and her choice and she may be resistant to a small person telling her how to manage her health. I know I wouldn't have been interested in hearing it. I know you are coming from a good place and want to help her. I am sure she understands her diabetes well, if you want to give her the book as a "love" gift that might be the only way to go. Evne then don't expect instant results you may unintentionally be hurting her feelings so be careful where and how you tread with this one...

I agree with Ashley that you can't make someone understand if they are resistant to such information. :(

My only suggestion is that if you are thinking of buying her a book, give her a copy of Dr Bernstein's Diabetes Solution. Dr Bernstein is himself an insulin dependent diabetic, and so she may be more likely to accept that information.

:rose:Rosebud:rose:

Rather than Atkins, I would recommend Dr Bernstein's Diabetes Solution, it is the same idea, lowcarb, but specifically geared to diabetics, both type 1 and type 2. As you may know, there is a part of this site that deals with it, there is also a site specifically for it, just Google on "Dr Bernstein's" and you will find it. You can read parts of the book online, also many testimonials from people who got their diabetes under MUCH better control with lowcarb and exercise. Unless she already has perfect results, in other words, normal sugars, if she has an open mind at all she will see that she can improve. Some people have been able to stop insulin, others decrease it, some decrease oral meds or do without. Good luck.

Thanks ashley,
That's exactly what I thought so when she denied to me that it would help her I let her explain to me that she needs carbs and let it go. She took about 20 min. to explain it all and tell me a few stories about her experiences but I never interupted and did nod a couple times so she knew I was listening. It got to the point that I was confused about the whole diabetes and low carb thing and she just about convinced me into her way of thinking. Then I read some of the CAD website and I think the controlling of carbs and insulin level stuff I understood.

I have found out in my dealings with family, the initial family member (ie her sister), should be the one to offer advice and make suggestions. It is not that you are unable to make good suggestions or that you care any less but sometimes it is easier to be heard from an immediate family member than an inherited one. Now, I grew up and only child, so this was foreign to me until I married the baby of seven siblings. I have found that if my hubby passes on my ideas to his family, it is taken more seriously, not percieved as a threat and more likely to be implemented than if I make the suggestion. Please keep this in mind when dealing with your sister-in-law.

Thanks everyone, I am not going to give her a book or anything I am just going to let her be. She may learn on her own in time, I do not want to insult her. She is not happy with her weight so when she goes to switch her diet again maybe she will read up on low carb. She is in complete control of her diabetes, she does not take meds at all and I would hate for it to be my fault if changing her diet hurt her in any way. I guess I will leave it at that.

My FIL is a type II diabetic and his nurse told him to eat lower carb foods. Wouldn't this be something the doctors tell them to do anyway?

Adukart, since your in-law to be has her diabetes under control, I think you are doing the right think by letting it rest for now.

My mother's story is similar. She recently found out she is diabetic and was sent to a registered dietician who has her eat fewer carbs. The dietician of course insisted that Atkins style low carbing is unhealthy and she told my mother that she *needs* a certain amount of carbs to function. (She also told my mother everyone *needs* fruit... but let's not go there.)

In less than a month after giving up sugar and eating fewer carbs, in controlled portions on a controlled schedule, my mother is maintaining her blood sugar at non-diabetic levels without medication, so she isn't willing to listen to me about low carb for the moment. I too have chosen to let it be, though Santa may still bring her Dr Bernstein's book.

I have had type II diabeties for 10 years now. My Dr. can't beleive that I don't need medication now. My blood sugars are in the 80s to 90s. He says diabetics always get worse and need medication and finally (if they live long enough) insulin. I saw him today and he was amazed at my readings. If your sister in law starts to have problems she will probably be more interested in changing her program. You have planted a seed. Give it time to grow.

Some doctors will. Most will still refer you to a dietician after your initial diagnosis of diabetes. Most (not all) dieticians are still sold on the ADA diet which is much higher in carbs than is good for most diabetics. Since a lot of folks are way high on carbs in their pre-diabetic days, the ADA diet is a reduction (150-200 grams of carb per day) and they may appear to be doing well with diet control...for a while. Then their blood sugar control starts to get worse and eventually gets out of control. This is exactly what happened to me. I think this is why so many doctors expect their patients to get worse; first moving to oral medications and then eventually needing insulin. What amazes me is that they consider this the "normal" progression of the disease instead of thinking that maybe it could be avoided by changing a person's diet.
Diabetes by nature means that the person has a problem with carbohydrate metabolism, more than likely complicated by some degree of insulin resistance. It doesn't make sense to me to take a person who already is having problems metabolising carbohydrates and instead of telling them to cut back on those, tell them to cut back on proteins and fats instead and only cut back on carbs a little.
Would I have switched to low carb sooner had I known 10 years ago what I know now? Yes! But instead it took my blood sugars going out of control and winding up on oral medications (along with developing high blood pressure) to convince me that there was something wrong with what I was doing and it needed changing.
I work with a lady who went directly to insulin control when she was diagnosed with diabetes and has multiple health problems on top of it. I loaned her my book (Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes solution). She read it, gave it back and said she'd stick with the recommendations of the diabetes clinic (the ADA diet that failed me so miserably). You can lead a horse to water.... :rolleyes:

Tough one...
 

I am type II diabetic. My BGL has dropped from 17 to 7 since i started low carbing. I am hoping to reduce my oral mediction over the next few months, and my goal is to be eventually free of it if possible.

My doctor recommended Atkins to me. When i was diagnosed I was advised by diabetic nutritionalist to eat low Glycemic Index carbs, but the carb count was still around 200 g a day. there is a swing happening around what is the best for diabetics. My dad is insulin dependent, and as far as I can tell injects insulin just so he can eat carbs. He aslo refuses to listen to me, so I leave him be.

A low carb diet similar to Atkins (vegetables, protein) was how diabetics maintained their health prior to insulin becoming available to the masses by the way :)

If your SILs levels are under control, and she is not or happy taking meds, then there is not a lot to be done. I was in denial about my levels for a long time. Perhaps she will come around in time.

Luscious :angel:

I think there's beginning to be a shift in the thinking: a friend of mine's father is diabetic, and his new dietician told him he should cut down on the carbs. Now he's eating more like my friend, who is doing Atkins.
Now I will discuss this with my father...whose diabetes was a major factor in my taking up low carbing.

The reason people switch to low carb is through witnessing someone doing well on it. The results speak louder than words.

The feeling you had when she was trying to explain her point to you.. and you just got lost and nodded a couple of times so she'd know you were "listening"... is likely how SHE felt when you were trying to talk low-carb to her.

You're wise to just leave her be about it.

Adukart, I don't think you'd be insulting her by buying her a book. It shows your concern for her, yet allows her to either choose to read the book & possibly incorporate the information into her way of life, OR just put the book on the shelf.

Incidentally, I'm preparing to recertify in CPR & ordered the most recent "BLS for Healthcare Providers" book put out by the AHA. Of course it went on & on about "prudent heart living" and recommended low fat diet, etc.

BUT way at the end of the chapter they snuck in a paragraph stating that for SOME patients, a carb-restricted diet is appropriate, as it lowers triglycerides and raises HDL levels!! I was pretty surprised to see this in an American Heart Association publication....

Tamborine--I hate to disagree, but buying the book for someone who clearly has no desire to read it and has expressed such would be kind of pushy, IMHO. I've been on the receiving end of such "gifts" from my thin, well-meaning relatives. It was like they knew SO much better than I what was good for me. I think Adukart is wise to just let it go for now.

Potatofree, maybe you're right. But I was looking at it from a standpoint of trying to provide a diabetic with dietary information to control her disease, not of saying to an overweight person, "Hey fatso, l think you need to lose weight!". Wasn't trying to incite any family feuds!

My first exposure to Atkins was through a dear friend with diabeties. Her doctor insisted she follow Atkins. During that time, her sugar count was under control for the first time in many years and she lost a great deal of weight. At the time, I was one of those who didn't think I could live without bread, potatoes, and pasta.


When I finally got serious though--I knew Atkins worked because of Alice. Unfortunately, she stopped following the Atkins plan (against medical advice) and is in serious health danger from the diabeties--and has gained over 100 lbs. I keep begging her to return to Atkins, but am having to accept that the choice is hers and I can't make her.

When your future sister in law is ready, she'll remember what you said. Until then, I agree that it's best to leave it alone.

Warning long
 

But Type II diabetics are "insulin resistant," which means that the cells will not allow insulin to unload sugar from the bloodstream. Because the cells do not respond to insulin, the pancreas reacts by secreting even more insulin in an attempt to open up the closed cells. This results in Type II diabetics having both high insulin levels and high blood-sugar levels. If you then ask diabetics to eat more carbohydrates (as in the ADA diet), it further increases both their blood-sugar levels and insulin levels.

Requiring diabetics with high blood-sugar levels to follow a high-sugar diet did not make sense. But how could I challenge the ADA? I reasoned that the ADA diet must have been thoroughly researched- they could not be recommending diets that were making people sicker! But all of my Type II diabetic patients returned with the same observations: The ADA diet was causing their blood sugars to rise to dangerous levels.

I decided to see what would happen to my patients' blood-sugar levels if I put them on a "zero"-carbohydrate diet. I asked them to eliminate all obvious carbohydrate foods, such as potatoes, rice, legumes, cereals, breads, fruit, low-fat yogurt, milk and, of course, refined sugar.

Since foods are often a combination of fats, proteins and carbohydrates, if a food caused a rise in their blood sugars we classified it in the carbohydrate category. For example, most people think that milk is all protein, when in fact the amount of carbohydrates in four ounces of milk drives a diabetic's blood sugar up approximately one hundred points. With this method, the main ingredient of a food and whether it raised blood-sugar levels dictated whether it should be considered a protein, a fat, a nonstarchy vegetable or a carbohydrate.

Because I did not want my patients to go hungry, I added some protein and fats back to their diet. At the time, I still thought that a low-fat diet was healthier, so I asked them to use low-fat dairy products, and to eat egg substitutes, mostly fish and chicken and small amounts of red meat. I also educated my patients about insulin levels. Eliminating obvious carbohydrates for one week would rapidly lower their insulin levels, and they would have to reduce their diabetes medicines accordingly to avoid low blood-sugar reactions.

One week later, the first group of patients returned for an evaluation. I looked at the blood sugar numbers they had recorded. Their progress was astounding. I said, "This is unbelievable!" Some confessed, "Dr. Schwarzbein, I've been cheating. I love red meat and when you said I could have some, I ate it every night for a week."

The "cheaters" were eating real mayonnaise, real cheese, real eggs and steak every day-foods that had been forbidden for so long they could not resist them. Their blood-sugar numbers had fallen dramatically. In fact, the biggest improvements were seen in the patients who "cheated" the most.

By cutting carbohydrates from their diets and adding proteins and fats, most patients (after an initial body-water loss) started losing one to two pounds of body fat per week. They ate fats and lost body fat. All came back to me and said, "I don't understand. I got fatter when I didn't eat fat. Now I'm eating fat and I'm losing weight."

Prior to this, these patients had high blood sugars, abnormal cholesterol panels, high blood pressure, weight gain, fatigue and constant hunger. As they followed the new dietary program their blood sugars normalized, so they were able to get off insulin and/or oral hypoglycemic agents (which treat high blood sugar). Their cholesterol levels improved, so I stopped their cholesterol-lowering medication. Their blood pressures came down, so I stopped their blood pressure medication. I was able to eliminate most of their drugs. They lost body fat and gained muscle mass. Their energy improved. They were not going hungry anymore. They felt great.

My diabetic patients were so happy with the improvements in their health that they began to refer family members to me. Although these referred patients were not diabetic, they suffered from fatigue, excessive body fat with decreased muscle mass, cholesterol problems, high blood pressure and even heart disease. I treated them with the same program. Body fat decreased and muscle mass increased, cholesterol levels normalized and blood pressures came down. They, too, felt great.

.....I searched the medical literature, looking for studies showing that low-fat diets are healthy. I was surprised to learn that there are no long-term studies showing such results. But numerous studies concluded that fat is necessary to maintain good health. And there are studies spanning three decades relating high insulin levels and heart disease, high insulin levels and hypertension, high insulin levels and excessive body-fat gain and other problems.

The light bulb turned on.

I was taught that diabetic patients have a very high rate of heart disease. Correspondingly, I had observed that diabetic patients frequently had a large scar down the middle of their chests. Frequently I found that these patients had heart bypass surgery before they were diagnosed with diabetes. The implications suddenly occurred to me! After a heart attack, people are told to go on a low-fat, high-carbohydrate diet-which increases both their blood-sugar and insulin levels. The increases in blood sugar and insulin were turning heart patients into diabetics. The newly created diabetics are then told to continue eating a diet high in carbohydrates, which further elevates their blood-sugar and insulin levels.

Next, we say to those diabetics, "Your blood sugar is too high, so you need to take insulin to bring that blood-sugar level down." But insulin injections produce even higher insulin levels-as well as increases in weight, blood pressure and the need for more insulin.

Furthermore, the studies I read substantiated a connection between prolonged high insulin levels and the degenerative diseases of aging, such as osteoarthritis, different types of cancer, cholesterol abnormalities, coronary artery disease, less lean body mass with excess body fat, high blood pressure, osteoporosis, stroke and Type II diabetes.

....Furthermore, medical science had gotten stuck on the assumption that only some people have the high-insulin gene. Again we differed. My clinical experience demonstrated that people acquired (not inherited) insulin resistance-and that too many people were suffering from this condition. I became convinced that the degenerative diseases of aging (which are the end result of insulin resistance) are accelerated by poor eating and lifestyle habits. In other words, a genetic predisposition to disease is not a "guarantee" that you will develop that disease. Instead, what you do and how you live your life determines your risk for developing insulin resistance and the degenerative diseases of aging.

From the introduction of Schwarzbein Principle book 1; also on her website

Piano

Being hypoglycemic, I know that carbs overuse are the root of all evil. My mom is diabetic and is in the medical field but is resistant to learning about maintaining balanced sugar levels and reducing her insulin this way.But, I am considering sending her Dr. Bernsteins book for Xmas.

Black57

You are right to give it a rest.

My SIL is diabetic. I have suggested "The Diabetes Solution" to him, but I would not to my SIL. She would get extremely defensive. If my brother wants to get her that book, fine.

Of course, there is another angle to all of this. If you can pretty much eat as you please and just "cover it" with insulin injections or oral medication, where is the motivation to change? I'm convinced that going low carb is going to aid me greatly in maintaining tight control of my blood sugars and therefore prevent, or at the very minimum delay for quite a long time, the possibility of developing the horrible complications that having diabetes can bring. BUT...it did mean changing how I eat quite drastically and saying goodbye to eating as I pleased. Change is scary and uncomfortable for many people and unless people are sufficiently frightened of what will happen if they don't change, often they won't.
It took a serious health scare (more serious than being diagnosed as a diabetic) to get me to wake up to the fact that if I wanted to live long enough to see my daughters grow up, I had better make some changes and make them right then. Basically, my motivation for changing my WOE came from being more frightened of what would happen if I didn't make those changes than of stepping out of my comfort zone and completely rethinking what I had been doing.
Some people (diabetics at least) may still be in some form of denial, telling themselves, "It's not so bad...I can still have my cake and not suffer any consequences from it as long as I'm good and take my medicine". It doesn't help when the health care system and organizations like the ADA reinforce that thinking. In other words...they're still in the mindset of "It won't happen to me".
For a lot of those people, no number of books, talks, pleading or anything else is going to convince them that changes are needed until they see a need for it themselves and until they do, your words will fall on deaf ears, I'm afraid.

LIsa, you're right, it sometimes takes a big scare to make one ready for major changes. It is sad that ADA takes the line it does - saw some diabetic recipes from them, cookies made with honey, that sort of thing. They do not say much about the fact that eating this way, and "being good" about taking medicine, generally leads to insulin, and all too often, to complications. At least now they are occasionally saying "some' diabetics "may" need to "moderate" their carbohydrate intake. Still, they still prattle on about 'base your diet on starches." They are pretty out to lunch, when it comes to dietary advice. Bill

I'm a type II diabetic, and I have to say the atkins plan is one of the best things a diabetic could choose for a WOE. My blood sugar is stable in the normal range and never spikes. I think doctors should recommend the atkins plan to people diagnosed with type2 diabetes.

Have you ever noticed how suddenly a bunch of little bits of things you know will fall into place and make sense. Happens to me all the time. I knew all that but some chance comment or thing I see lines it all up nicely to make sense out of the blue. That is my parents. My mom has been fat for a long time and my skinny dad was finally diagnosed diabetic. Of course he is not skinny now. He looks much healthier but would like to be a bit slimmer. Anyway, it took a combination of information sources to get it to click with them. It started with mom cutting back on bread - taking one piece out of the freezer each day. Then a friend at that pool said she was using the glycemic index as a guide, then I had lost weight, then my aunt and uncle took up the WOE and cooked that way while they were together on vacatioin. Bingo, bango , bongo........they are moving more and more toward eating low carb. My mom made mock potatoe salad for me last time we ate there, and my brother (also diabetic but resistant to change) loved it and asked my sil to make it. This is such a big change - she is so excited and asked me for some recipes.

Never mind the fact that if more people were introduced to this plan, they wouldn't DEVELOP full-blown diabetes....

I am a type 2 diabetic as well. The doctors initially put me on some oral medication and the typical diabetic diet. At least 200 carbs a day. I gaind 25 lbs that way.

Once I started low carbing, I was able to bring my A1C to well under 7 and reduce most of my oral medications. I have a friend who is like your future sister in law. She insists that she needs to eat higher carb foods to stay healthy. But she is eating crap foods, like candy and stuff loaded with trans fats. When her sugars get higher she gives herself more insulin. She is on a crazy cycle.

My endocrynologist told me to do the Atkins diet. He said that they are now recommending it to people with type 2 and syndrome X. I have been low carbing for a year now and I have finally lost all 25 lbs the "real diabetic diet" made me gain.

I am happier and healthier now than I have ever been. Your best advice to her is to have a serious talk with her doctor about what is happening in her body, why it is happening, and (most important) what is gonna happen. Most people who are diagnosed with this disease do not think of the long term effects of diabetes. They figure they will beat it. Some do, and cudos to them. Howver, more struggle each and every day with the disease and its problems.

It is a very serious disease, and should be treated that way. I wish someone would have convinced me 10 years ago to talk to someone who had a clue, (not that many people did back then). But each day I eat good food and feel good about myself. That is the reward.

Good luck to her.

I have a friend who went from type II to type I. He injected himself with insulin 4 times a day and was miserable about it. He couldn't control his diabetes even though he did everything recommended by the ADA. He was angry that he was getting worse.

Anyway, after going on and on about low carbing, I eventually came across Dr. Bernstein's book (as mentioned by others in this thread). He read it, spent a couple of days not eating carbs and was amazed that he only needed one shot of insulin those days. so he continued low carbing and is now happy to be taking 5 units of insulin a day instead of 90.

He only wishes he'd known about this years ago, then he probably wouldn't have become a type I diabetic.

However, it takes someone who's truly looking for alternatives to medicine, shots or the fear of losing their sight or limbs before they'll listen to alternative ways of eating. It's difficult when all your doctors and nutritionists say you're eating healthy. I think the gift of Dr. Bernstein's book is a great idea.

I just wish I'd found out about this WOL (and in particular the diabetes stuff) years ago; my grandmother is type I diabetic (not sure if she was diagnosed as type II first and it progressed or what... I was very young) and she's been completely blind in one eye and had very little sight in the other for years.

I think it's a bit late to think about getting her on something like Bernstein, with her being in her 70s and unable to read without it being large print, a magnifying glass and daylight.

I don't really want to totally upset her routine etc when she knows what she's doing with the insulin etc, and like I say, not being able to read labels at all, and living alone makes it way more complicated, but I will mention it to her.