Thoughts about binging . . .
 

I'm a binge eater. I could diet all day and then at night, just go through the refrigerator. For the longest time I thought it was psychological in nature. But when I thought about it, REALLY examined it, the times I was the most upset were the times I could not eat at all (everything would taste like ashes). When I switched to a low carb diet, I no longer felt the same compulsion to binge unless I ate some processed food, but then the cravings were manageable. Since cutting out the processed foods, there have been no cravings, even though I have upped my carbohydrates. I'm not sure what it is in processed stuff that makes me want to binge, whether it's the wheat, the msg, or whatever, but for me, binging is most definitely a physical reaction to something.

Scary how messing with our food system has created so many problems for people, and yet we blame the people who have become sick. Of course people eat food that is bad for them, and they know it's bad for them, but even making "healthy" choices brings on problems. I was a fat, binge eating vegan. When I was raw vegan, I lost a ton of weight, but now I think that may have been from elminiating processed foods, not eating raw.

Whatever WOE you use, vegan, vegetarian, low carb, the fact that you eliminate processed foods will make you feel better immediately and give you that "This diet is wonderful" sensation. However, once you get past eliminating processed foods, you have to take a look at what else you are eating or not eating and asking yourself "is this healthy" or "am I getting everything I need?"

That's when the researching should become intense to ensure your body is getting what it needs and is not deteriorating.

Binge eating, in my opinion, is your body telling you it is not getting what it needs and signalling it's hungry. If the food you are eating isn't helping, then it's the wrong food. If you have stuffed yourself to the gills and you're still hungry, it's not emotions, it's the type of food you are eating or not eating. Throw in hormones that are out of control and it's a double whammy.

Just my 2 cents worth.

You have some very good points. Binging is considered a psychological problem by many, if not most experts and people in general. People also talk about "emotional eating" and "comfort eating" and such.

I'm not sure that binging is brought on by lack of nutrients, though, because when I was binging I supplemented AND I ate so much food anyway that it would be hard not to get the nutrients, though I suppose it's possible since grains are anti-nutrients. But it's such an immediate response -- like blood sugar rising and dropping. I think it's more likely caused by hormonal response rather than nutritional.

It would be interesting if this were actually studied. It actually is VERY freeing realizing that my binging is caused by physical factors, no matter what those physical factors are, rather than psychological.

I noticed the same thing about eating Low carb, I am no longer a binge eater. For years I have been to psychologists and group therapy, for my so called "mental problems" and now I am finding out its msg, corn syrup, and over processed foods that are to blame. I am a college student and I mentioned this to my psych professor, he said I must have learned to cope better! I guess they need to keep their jobs. I still say that I am a compulsive overeater because it was a hellish experience and I have to remember that I can fall back into it instantly just by adding some cocoa crispies to my grocery cart.

Personally, I have not even thought of cheating or bingeing since going carnivore. When I was general low carbing I did go on pizza and/or ice cream binges often. But I am not pre-disposed to diabetes and don't have much of a problem with my blood sugars.

Oh pizza, some lc-ers say they can just eat the toppings, just looking at it makes me more scared than seeing a snake!

Raw vegan, for the record, was HORRIBLE. I thought of food constantly, was never satisfied, and even though I lost weight, I also lost a lot of hair. I added meat back in because I was SO miserable and that is when I really started healing. Too bad I went back to eating crap a year after that and got fat again :(

I can eat pizza toppings. We do pizza about once a month as a family treat (we used to do it weekly, sometimes twice a week) though not always. I also bake bread. Wheat does not tempt me at all any more. Last time I was glutened, I was nauseated for hours and that cured me.

I never went without wheat before. I never considered it a problem. Even low carb, I ate dreamfield's pasta and low carb tortillas. Raw vegan, I sprouted wheatberries and dehydrated them, ground them and used them as a filler. It wasn't until I cut out wheat that I started seeing real improvements in my health.

It's being studied constantly. Just not reported in the mainstream media except for little snips here or there.

And yes, it's energy ups and downs (blood sugar/insulin), and hormonal, and also neurotransmitters.

A newer book is "The End of Overeating" that talks about the physical reward system.

One book that helped me was DesMaison's "Potatoes not Prozac." Check out the bibiliography of the research on the physical factors:

http://www.radiantrecovery.com/citations.htm

And that is years ago. there is more research since then.

Great post tiredangel, and I agree with you 100% about what a huge difference the combination of low-carb and removing processed foods makes.

I used to think I had an eating problem too. Nope, not anymore. I kinda blame the food now. :lol:

Something totally weird? Couple of weeks ago, I ate a baked yam. No cravings, no 'binge-y' stuff, no weight gain. Nothing. I was shocked, because I was looking at this yam as some kind of a serious cheat. Imagine my surprise when nothing happened. I'm *still* shocked by this. I even did it again a week later, and once again - nothing happened. Now, I am not about to invite these things into my diet on a regular basis, because I'm worried it could be a bit of a slippery slope - but it was nice to know that if it didn't come from a box or have a bar code on it, it's far less likely to induce the cravings and get me all messed up again.

And yet, I used to find myself getting a bit too attached to things like 'low carb ketchup'. I basically got rid of it for this reason, but found it interesting to note that even on "low carb" you can run into things that cause problems.

I think the combination of low carb + as 'non-processed' as you can possibly get is a real winner. :)

Anyone read the latest rat study on the research page? Very interesting, when junk food is shown to have the same power as heroin addiction.

I love low carb because it's the only time I have FREEDOM from my binging. I have been a binge eater since adolescence, and that out-of-control feeling with food is the pits.

I've usually always considered eating badly to be simply a decision I made. I mean I think I have sometimes eaten the same as some friend who would promptly be emotional and down on themselvs. They'll be all, OMG I ate chips and candy and McD! I binged, the world is ending, I'm so weak, I was upset! I can have the same experience and simply think, "I made a poor decision, and I'm responsible for that." With incredibly rare exceptions I don't attribute my eating badly to emotion as many seem to. I don't know if this makes me a non binge eater or simply someone who recategorizes the experience. That sort of thing happens seldom enough on LC to not be much of an issue with me.

It became an issue when I started trying to add carbs and saw the prompt effect on my decisions that the foods I chose had, but at last I seem to have found a way to up carbs without sending myself offplan promptly.

I've learned that large poor decisions are vastly more likely to follow smaller poor decisions, especially if those have gluten/grains in them anywhere. So willpower starts at the 3-carb level as I used to say, definitely starts at keeping gluten grains the hell out of my diet altogether. I am way better off eating 2 candy bars than a single Wheat Thin if staying on plan much longer after that is the criteria.

Currently the only real danger I have is when I get too happy, and have money, and am out of the house, all at the same time. A food-reward-psychology is apparently still present in me, need to work that one out! I was sick for 2 weeks recently and just as I felt SO much better I got paid and was out at the store and ate/drank something I shouldn't have (but frankly sure did enjoy). (And then promptly lost 4#. The universe just screws with us that way.)

But I do think that most eating disorders, even major ones, are heavily related to nutritional problems. Look at the results just from giving anorexics zinc for example. I don't buy that in the human body which is biochemically driven, anything is "just emotional."

PJ

I think its a combination of hormones, emotions and addiction. When I stick to a low carb WOE my hormones are balanced, which helps me control the urge to eat the very foods that cause my hormones to become unbalanced. For me that kind of binge eating is caused by making poor choices, so eating right solves part of the problem. But then there are times when something happens and I'll slip right back into the compulsion to over eat as a way to comfort or distract myself from the pain. That's an emotional reaction to food that's not much different from an alcoholic turning to booze when they're stressed out. And then there's sugar addiction which for me is an addiction to anything sweet. It doesn't matter if its artificially sweetened or the real thing. If I eat something sweet I immediately want more, and if there's more in the house I'll figure out a way to justify eating it, usually by telling myself that this is the last time I will ever buy that food again. Which of course is a lie, but it works at the time and I eat whatever it is that's tempting me, all the while swearing that I will never do that again. The only way I can control my messed up relationship with food is by sticking to a low carb diet and not having anything sweet in the house. Its pathetic how I can go on for months thinking I've got everything under control and then in the blink of an eye I can fall right back into that miserable addiction.

What is it they say in OA... that you're only one bite away from a binge? That is so true.

I've been dieting since I was ten years old and I always blamed my lack of "willpower" on myself. I started LC in January 2009, lost about 15 lbs and then maintained through the summer with a slightly higher carb level and then started losing again in the last month. I'm now down about 24 lbs.

The greatest thing about this WOE is that I've stopped blaming myself for being fat. My inability to stay on a diet was my fault. Somewhere I must be cheating when I would stop losing weight, even though I was still weighing all my food and journalling. I'm certain that there are physical and emotional reasons why we are overweight but for me it is so liberating now that I know it isn't my fault and, more importantly that I can change it.

I'm not even particularly worried about Halloween candy this weekend. I didn't just learn to cope better. The "need" is gone. They taste good but I don't "need" them. I don't salivate when I think of them which means that now, I actually have a choice about what goes in my mouth. Yay!

I think bingeing is purely brain circuitry. People beat themselves up over responses they have very little control over (once started). The key is controlling your environment so the pattern doesn't start.

Reading about neural psychology in science magazines taught me a lot about this, so did reading David Kessler's book, whose name I've forgotten. Anyway, once you figure out there's a portion of your brain about as smart as a lizard is in charge of this stuff, you can use the other portions of your brain that are a little smarter to outwit the lizard. :D

"Outwit the Lizard! Eat low-carb." I love it! :lol:

Seriously, people endlessly ponder, "Why did I binge just now?" They look for all kinds of reasons but really, the reason is quite simple... your brain is wired to do it. Now, you may have wired it that way yourself inadvertently or perhaps you were born with it, it doesn't matter. Bingeing releases endorphins and probably other chemicals that make you feel good. It's like smoking a cigarette, shooting up, or taking a drink if you're an alcoholic.

There's only one reason for it... because you've got an addiction and that's what happens when you're addicted. The lizard wants it. You don't need to go looking for repressed memories or attribute things to emotions and a bad childhood. It's just a waste of time trying to explain these very low level primitive urges, brought on by neural circuitry, on much higher level brain function. The only blame we have is that we haven't used our higher reasoning to outsmart the lizard.

That's where higher level reasoning comes into play. How do I make sure I don't do this again? How do I avoid that trigger? What do I do if I can't avoid that trigger in my environment?

My favorite techniques are:

Remove triggers from my environment (my home, especially). This is huge and what I give credit to low carb to. However, it doesn't help me outside of environments I'm controlling quite so much.

When I walk into a store that triggers me (convenience stores), I've already walked myself through the scenario before hand and walked myself through the consequences of failure.

Deflection: I want Doritos, but a fresh stick of gum or a coffee with cream (rare treat) would feel pretty special to me and make resisting the other stuff much easier. If I'm going to eat at a friend's house, I might bring the dessert which will be low carb and crazy delicious.

When I eat XYZ I start to crave things. So don't eat XYZ.

Avoid triggering places, people, situations when hungry. Have snacks on hand so you don't get to that point. Acknowledge your weaknesses. I know damn well if I eat one chip, I'm going to eat them until they're gone. So don't eat that first one.

Understand failure. Failure reinforces the neural wiring that causes me to do this, and want to do this, that makes me trigger more strongly the next time I walk into a convenience store, or see a bag of chips or whatever. Understanding what failure does to your body in terms of your health is really good too. Taking another step towards premature aging and diabetes and so on. Reading Good Calories, Bad Calories did a lot to stop my cheating.

Then when you are about to enter a triggering situation, you get your higher reasoning to walk through the results of a failure and you can probably avoid it.

Time. Finally, the less you binge, the less you will want to binge. Those neural circuits degrade when they're not constantly reinforced. I guess this falls under "Understanding failure". :D

Hormones. Not having insulin and blood sugar pushing you around (by eating too many carbs) makes this soooo much easier.

That's a classic! Love it, sure puts things in perspective. So true.

That's a great post Nancy. That should totally be a sticky somewhere!!

Hey! Glad you enjoyed it! It feels good to understand a little more about why I binged and I've gotten it under much better control as a result.

Too bad I was over 50 after feeling so hopeless on other diets for 35 years when I finally realized this!

LC stopped most of my binge urges, but dairy and minute amounts of grains still triggered them. Only when I gave these up did I truly develop a "normal" relationship with food and realize that it was the foods, not character flaws or mental instability causing my problems. How refreshing.

Yes, good one JudyNYC! Best writeup I've seen in years, covering so much in such a readable little post.

I'm glad you mentioned time, too. These things have to get re-grown at the speed of growing things, not the instant "aha!" as soon as we get the idea.

Its a very wonderful post :agree: but I didn't write it...
NancyLC wrote it! Great writing Nancy!!
But thanks anyway!! ;)

Nancy, that post says it all. Each one of us who struggle with weight issues know exactly what you are talking about, but the way you worded it sums it perfectly. Thank you!!

bah, how topical. for me it's these damn 'treat days' that end up with me stuffing my face since i know i won't be having bread/sugar/ etc for a while...except for that damn day.

i think it's time to rethink my strategy. am now doing some sort of detox....10 carbs 1 week, then 15, then 20 for two and then 5 carb upping until i reach my carb threshold (around 70).

Tried doing Atkins my way....think it's time to try the old man's way...

(((...kicks pebble....))))

Damn thee treat days!!! :D

Instead of a "treat day"...how about you choose a "treat food" that you allow yourself to have "a" portion of once every few of weeks.

I had to do this as I lost my 120 lbs or I felt I'd break if I didn't have an old favorite every once in a while. Once a month and "a" portion worked out well for me. it was Dreamfields for me and I hardly ever eat it any longer. :cool:

Yeah, I think you're right. Although it is safe to say I am extremely sum zero/all or nothing.

I'm going to experiment with low carb treats once I am past the 20g mark and see how that works out. If I stay within the carb goal, even with LC treats, it'll be easier to maintain hinged.

I can def say that on treat days i am UNHINGED. And the worst part is, i don't even enjoy the carby food as much as I think I will.

I love the quote "Abstinence is as easy for me as temperance is for others."

Argh thank you!

screen name dyslexia strikes again. All those n, y, c's in the names

Excellent post NancyLC!

NancyLC that is a wonderful post!

Very topical for me as well. I was just writing in another post about the "carb monster" inside me.

Ok, you guys inspired me so I wrote it up for my blog.

http://mostlypaleo.blogspot.com/200...-binge-eat.html

Here's more proof that what causes us to binge is physiological: Why some continue to eat when full.

However, it doesn't mean we can't contrive to make this happen less often.