I have to put my 2 cents in, i am on atkins lost 20 lbs, then was STUCK for 4 months,did everything right no lbs, couple inches then 2 months ago i stared to Carb up on saturdays and Sundays(thanks to dan :wave: )go back to atkins on Monday i was also taking Xenedrine RFA and to date i have lost a total of 17lbs while carbing up and taking Xenedrine, so folks it do work for some people
give it a try if u don"t like chuck it :) :)

i am now weighing 229lbs and going down :) :)

iyonna :wave: :)

Now measuring...
 

You make a very good point about measuring myself. For some reason, I never have done it, although I now wish I did. I've been LC'ing for 6 mths now and this weekend was the first time I took my measurements. So, in the next few weeks I'll be able to see if I'm loosing inches, even if I'm not loosing lbs.

Thanks for the tip!!

Christy

Thanks for your two cents Iyonna. Sounds like a good idea.
Not to mention it would be nice to be able to have a couple
of new foods on the weekends. I am taking Xendrine EFX, been
on it for 1 week now. Iam going to take my measurements
tonight and see what happens in the next couple of weeks.

Hope everyone has a great 4th of July, anyone have any other
suggestions love to hear them.


Pammysue

Is it common to get dull headache when starting on thermogenics?
 

I started taking Extreme Ripped Fuel this week to help boost my metabolism. I have developed a dull headache. Is this common? Do thermogenics increase blood flow (therefore blood pressure?)? If it's common does it normally go away once your body adjusts, or is this a sign that thermogenics are not compatible with how my body works?

Detailed info..
Tuesday - 1 pill before lunch. BFL Upper body workout about 2pm
Wednesday - 2 pills before early morning 20MAS, 1 pill before lunch
Thursday - no pills yet

Since Monday I cut out all coffee, which was usually only 2 cups of black coffee first thing in the morning.

I am prone to migraines, triggered by anything that increases blood flow to the head. I tried taking ginsing and various female herbal hormone replacement remedies but had to stop all of them within 3 or 4 days because they contained ingredients that increased blood flow to the head, and caused dull all day long headaches.

Since I started LCing, migraines and chronic headaches have gone away completely, unless I eat something or take a supplement that is a trigger.

I haven't been able to determine if the dull headache is from the Extreme Ripped Fuel, or from the intense heat this week (although I have been hybernating inside in the air conditioning)

Any info would be appreciated. I'm mostly interested in finding out more about how the body reacts to the start of a thermogenic routine, so I can make a decision as to whether to continue or not.

ps - I spent time yesterday searching this forum for references to thermogenics and headaches and found nothing.

....but anyone thinking about including the stack should still consult thier DR!
 

...RIGHT???

I have a question for the "INSPIRING (-looking" at least, :blush: nice pic TD) TrainerDan":

If someone is sensitive to caffiene to the point of chronic insomnia, they can't do the stack, so can they do just the nat-ephed & aspirin combo with any fx? I CANNOT do caffiene. Also I had heart surgry on a valve when I was 3. I have decent BP now, low chol, and work out cardio 30 mins NP's. Will my doc laugh at me if I ask if its safe for me to take a nat-ephed?

Thanks
Kara :confused:

Wow, this is quite an informative discussion y'all have going on here!

I too have decided to try out an ECA stack. After visiting Drumlib.com and checking out the price comparison page, I decided to try Metabolift first (for half dose), and then use Stacker 2 when I want full dose. I'm one of those people that isn't bothered/affected much by caffiene and stimulants, and so far I haven't noticed any difference in the way I feel on 1/2 dose.

Thanks for mentioning body temperaure, I ought to check mine in the mornings while I'm taking this. Its usually under 97 :( maybe ECA will help up it.

times?
 

Are there certain times of the day where it is more effective to take an ECA stack? For example, only on an empty stomach.
I eat every 3-4 hours so I don't think it is ever empty except early AM.

Thanks!
Meg

Some people take their ECA about half an hr before working out, so they get the boost for the WO. I take mine on an empty stomach for AM cardio, then another by 3 pm. If I have caffiene any later than that, it keeps me up.

Hope that helps.

Friday

Q: about NHF's Thermogen-X...anyone use this?
 

I just bought it then read somewhere about Guarana root, is that a natural ephedra, or am i mistaken?
I just dont want to take any ephedra products.
I had heart surgury & have mild hypertension when stressed. I am IR & PCOS as well.
I need to lose 40 lbs, have lost 10

It contains:
Calcium Pyruvate 250mg
HCA 250mg
Fucus vesiculosis 130mg
guarana root 80mg
kola nut 75mg
uva ursi (10% arbutin) 100mg
Gymnema sylvestre (25% gym. acid) 30mg
Vanadyl sulfate 100mcg
[in a 14% gelatin/86% h20 capsule]

recommended to take by body weight
on an empty stomach
<125lbs 4 caps
150-180 5 caps
180-225 6 caps
>225 8 caps

I was taking 2 sets of 3 caps (I'm 200 lbs)
then stopped, b/c I didnt know what I was taking.
I THOUGHT that I had bought a supplement that contained cayenne & other thermo-whatever nutrients, but this was beside it on the shelf & cheaper for more caps, and I screwed up.

I get really spinny on these, so i read the label & saw the ingreds & went whoa nelly!
thanks for any help
Kara :q: :q: :confused: :confused: :q: :q:

Hi there and welcome all my first time on forum :)
First of all, please, forgive my my terrible english :rolleyes:

I've begun my fat-loosing crusade abount 5 months ago. It was just a normal, hi-carbohydrate, low caloric diet with aerobic exercises 5 days per week (2 hours of bicycle trips at good speed).

In the last two months i've also started carefully ECA power-ups. As i have alergie to aspirine, i use mix of Ephedra 60 and Caffeine 200 form Kaizen, without any aspirine or salicile boosting.

On this time, i've lost 30 kilograms (66 pounds) including much of my lean body mass (low-caloric diet , decrased methabolism , exercises) :(

Now i am impressed with my friend's results on hi-fat, hi-proteins, low-carbo diet (calling here in Poland kato or CKD diet, which is quite similar to Atkin's diet i suppose), and i've decided to try the same to loos rest of my fattie :D

I will put away thermogenic stacks in kato-phase and will take them in carbohydrate-up phase (1 day of last 6 low-carbo days in each week).

Now i'am on third day of "fat-diet" , keto-diastix strips shows ketones in my urine :rolleyes: - my body is in state of kethosis. I hope my kidneys and liver will survive this ;)

I am gonna make a diary, so it should be preserved for posterity :D

Hi Kara,
Guarana is caffiene I'm fairly sure and mahung in ephedra. Good luck and also welcome aboard "beerman". Lisa

Thermogenics Plus containing Phosphosterine™???
 

what is the thoughts on this new product? How can it possibly work? If anyone has any thoughts, let me know!




Clinically Proven Weight Loss
Results 830% greater than diet and exercise alone!


Boost Metabolism
Control Appetite
No Caffeine
No Ephedrine
No Ma Huang
No stimulants
Natural Fat Burner
Fast Weight Loss
Safe and effective
No Failure
32% increased energy levels

If you've watched the news lately, there's little doubt that you've heard of the ill effects and dangers of using any stimulant based weight loss products.
As effective as they have been for a lot of people, the risk is just too high.

A lot of people saw these risky and dangerous products as their way to lose weight. But if you suffer from high blood pressure, hypertension, diabetes and many other conditions, the risk of something going wrong using such stimulant based weight loss products is immesurably high.

Now there's finally a solution. With Thermogenics Plus containing Phosphosterine™ you can burn fat, lose weight and get more energy without the risk associated with products containing stimulants such as MaHuang or Ephedra.

Thermogencis Plus with Phosphosterine™ naturally speeds up your metabolism which causes your body to burn food and fat much faster.

Lisa

I'm by far not an expert on thermogenics, but I have these observations. If I understand this thermogenics properly, the important part of the thermogenics is the ECA stack (ephedra, caffeine, aspirin). The product you mention doesn't have any of those things, so I don't understand how it can be a thermogenic. To me, it sounds like a wonder pill for quick weight loss, advertised as a stimulant free stack, to get people's interest. I may be completely wrong on this.

I did an internet search on Thermogencis Plus with Phosphosterine and came up with a pile of sites. The one that caught my eye the most was this one that claimed there was a scientific study behind this.

http://www.weightlossanddietingpills.com/index.htm

the so called study was:

In a double-blind clinical study, 20 overweight men and women were divided into three groups. Group A received the active Phosphosterine compound. Group B received a placebo. Group C, acting as the control, received nothing.

Each group was permitted to follow a satisfying 1800 calorie a day meal plan, and asked to begin a modest 3-day per week exercise program. In other words, all three groups were treated the same, except Group A was the only group given the active Phosphosterine compound.

At the conclusion of the six week study the data was independently verified and reviewed. The results were astounding! Group A (the Phosphosterine group) experienced a significant decrease in overall body weight -- an incredible 830% greater than the group who followed the diet and exercise program alone!

----

So that study basically had about 6 people on it for 6 weeks. That's far from a clinical study having reliable results. You'd need far more people and a lot more studies to get true scientific results. We all know that the first month or so of any "diet" program people lose a good amount of weight, most of it water not fat, so I find it hard to believe that the pill contributed to this whopping 830% better results.

The other thing I noticed, is that the sites that sell the pill are all heavy into all kinds of "wonder pills and remedies" like breast enlargement, rapid weight loss, cellulite melters etc.

Real ECA stacks are generally used by athletes/weight lifters. The purpose is to boost metabolism to burn fat not necessarily for weight loss, but for fat loss for toning up. To me there is a difference between the two. None of the sites I saw advertising your product were body building or athletic sites.

That's enough to make me wonder if this is just another bottle of snake oil.

I noticed from your profile that you are brand new to this site, and only a few days into Atkins. If you are looking for a quick way to lose weight...there isn't one. Your best bet is to stick with a low carb plan, and do your time with it. A bottle of wonder pills isn't the answer. If on the other hand you are looking for more info on thermogenics to enhance weightlifting results, then I would suggest (if you haven't already) reading this thermogenics thread from the very beginning. There's a ton of valuable info that should help you make up your mind on wh at course to take. We all have choices. They should be informed choices.

Good luck on your journey.

Thanks Angela! Thats pretty much what i thought, just wondering if anyone had heard of this. I actually stopped in GNC for an atkins bar as i was starving with no other food options and needed something to tide me over. I have had success with atkins in the past and kept the weight off, but now after a year of being on the pill i am back to square one. so now i went off the pill and am starting back with induction. i passed on the salesmans pitch for this product as i am not one to take any kind of pills (i struggle taking an aspirin!) and again was just curious. Being on birth control has totally screwed up my metabolism and the few amounts of carbs i was eating maybe just wasnt the same with the hormones as i used to tolerate them well. Being off the pill now and back to induction i hope will put me back on the right track! Thanks again for your response! This board is very informative and I am definitely learning even more from my first experience with low carbing as i have this access!
Take care!
Lisa

Starting Xenadrine
 

Hey everyone, just finished reading through most of the thread. I'm about to start taking Xenadrine (old school stuff I bought last year) to help bust through my last 15/20 pounds (I've lost about 105 so far from diet in the past 5 months).

What's the recommended advice for dosage/frequency? I have read in the thread 8 weeks on, 4 weeks off and also M-F but not weekends. Does that sound right? Or is it 8 weeks on, 4 weeks off OR M-F no weekends? I'm concerned about overdoing it and dependency.

I will ease into it as per recommendations on the bottle (basically 1/2 dose for the 1st week). Should I take on an empty stomach?

Thanks for your time,

Anthony

Anthony, I would just doublecheck the warning on the label and verify that and ECA stack is safe to take w/o a gallbladder (a possible side effect that I am aware of is kidney stones but I couldn't find anything on gallstones/gallbladder).

For anyone one else interested you can find a list of possible drug interactions with ephedra here

Nat

Thanks Nat, I'll take a look. I didn't even really consider that since all the Gallbladder really does is store extra bile. But the LAST thing I need is Kidney stones.

By the way, are you psychic? Because I didn't post anything about my recent Gallbladder surgery (insert twilight zone music) ;)

Anyone have any advice on my original frequency question?

Anthony

New to Xenadrine too...
 

Hi! Just read your post and I am in about the same place. I started xenadrine yesterday, one in the morning on an empty stomach followed by breakfast shortly after and one in the afternoon. It seems like the morning pill wore off (feeling more alert) within four hours but the afternoon pill kept me up all night :roll: ! I wonder if i should just start out the first week or so with just one morning pill....anyone have any thoughts?

The Caffeine Conundrum
 

This thread makes very interesting reading. I guess caffeine is okay so long as you remember to drink lots of water as well.

As an aside, I was on semi-detox for the whole of July. I say 'semi' as around the 21st July I was with my parents and suspect my decaf coffee was mixed up with their normal coffee. Wow, after 3 weeks of no stimulants I was high as a kite for an hour and then was nauseus changing to lethargic for the next 1.5 hours.

Having said all that, I'm about to go out and buy some Xenedrine to aid my August "High Protein, Low Carbs, High Fat Loss Campaign" - guess I'll be on 1 tab a day before my morning jog!!

topical yohimbine
 

Hello, I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with yohimbine, applied topically.

I have read about it in Trainer Dan's book, and like the way it sounds - but the only info I can find (so far) on the net is from companies advertising their own brand of cutting gel.

It seems very expensive, is that just the brand name thing? Can I do what I do with an EC stack and just buy the ingredients separately for a fraction of the cost?

Meg

On the bottle of xenadrine it says "The maximum recommended dosage of ephedrine for a healthy adult is no more than 100 mg. in a 24 hour period for not more than 12 weeks."

I take one capsule (10 mg) approx. 4 days a week before my morning workouts for the anti-catobolic effects among it's other benefits.

max dosage per week (100mg x 7 days a week) 700 mg
my dosage per week (10mg x 4 days a week) 40 mg

Does anyone have an opinion on whether I would need to cycle it or not at my dosage? Or is it good the way it's going now?

XENADRINE
 

I am still learning about this Xenadrine.

I started taking Xenadrine EFX (Ephedrine Free) about 4 weeks ago. I do feel it is working, I am loosing a lot of inches. I went with the EFX because of all these reports on Ephedrine and how bad it is for your body. They did a report on CNN last week and the government is going after the makers of Metabolife for saying there is no side affects of Ephedrine. There are reported deaths, heart disease etc. So Iam sure there is still some ephedrine in the EFX (they probably have it hidden by calling it green tea or something) but I feel better taking the EFX. Last week I took two tablets in the morning, two in the afternon for 4 days and then then only 2 the next day and then none all weekend. I am trying only to take it 4-5 days a week.

If anyone has any other information left me know.

Pammysue

I have a few questions....I too am on the Atkins diet, and I usually eat eggs and cheese for breakfast, salad with ranch dressing for lunch, and meat and veggies for dinner. I try to snack on fruit throughout the day if I get hungry. Is this an acceptable diet? What is the max amount of carbs I should have?

Also, my doctor prescribed phentermine for me a while back, and I have taken it off and on for over a year. I seem to hit a plateau and it doesn't seem to work anymore. I have been trying metabolite, Xenedrine, etc off and on too. My doctor has been monitering my BP and heart, and everything seems ok. Is it wise to switch back and forth, or should I pick one and stay with it?

adkins
 

Hi Kderry,

Welcome to the world of information. This website is great for any information you might need and also for support.

I have been on Adkins since April 1st. You need to get the book if you dont have it. Its extremely helpful. You start out for 14 days with only 14 gms of carbs. It is a extremel tuff 14 days but it works. Then slowly move up to 20 or 25. Myself I am at 40 gms a day. I have lost 32 pds and about 29 inches. I look at the Adkins program as a way of life not a diet anymore. I choose not to eat breads, pasta, pop, etc. Now once a week I will eat what I want in moderation. They say to do that so you dont crave foods. Like this weekend, I had 2 pieces of pizza.

Myself I have lost all this weight and inches without exercising
at all. Just the running I do with my kids. I started yesterday doing Taebo and walking. I am going to sit back and watch the weight fall off. HA HA :D

I am also taking Xenadrine EFX (Ephedrine Free). I take the EFX because I see no reason to put ephedrine in my system. I take it 4-5 days a week and lay off 2 days etc.

Well congrats on your decision to do Atkins. It does work and there are lots of people here that can help you and will encourage you in any way possible.

Hope to talk to you soon.

Pammysue :wave:

Has anyone tried Thermicore by MetRx or any of the other time-release thermogenics? I really like Thermicore during the day, but after the 8 hours and it's gone from my system, I just crash. So I usually don't take it until after lunch, or I'm ready for bed by 5:00PM. I tried Hydroxycut a few years ago and really liked it, but it got so expensive. What is another thermogenic I could try that doesn't leave me dead-tired at the end of the day that's reasonably priced?

answers ...
 

Meg S - I am currently using Yohimburn, which is a topical yohimbine product. They combined the aloe, peppermint, and yohimbine in the product, so it saves alot of aggravation. The cost is $70, but there is 3.5g of yohimbine in the bottle. At aprx. 30mg per application, you can see that it is pretty cost effective.

It is available at www.anabolicfitness.com. They also sell a NYC stack, for those who are having trouble finding one.


Kderry - All of the EC products are essentially the same as far as the main active ingredients go, so you can switch from brand to brand. Some are stronger than others, so be sure to check the strength of the active ephedra alkaloids when you buy a new brand.

Misty - I tried Themicore awhile back, and I liked the time release, but it never really seemed to curb my appetite. I switched to Xenadrine RFA and that worked, but I time my last dose at 3 pm. By them time I get the gym at 5pm, it is in my system kicking hard. I still crash pretty hard, but it is usually around 9pm or so when I am getting ready for bed anyway. The theromgenic crash is kind of unavoidable. Just a timing issue I suppose.

Another study (newer)
 

As you can see in this thread, there are good points and bad points on taking ephedra based products. The best advice is to read the label carefully and follow the directions/warinings.

A recent study by Vukovich and colleagues evaluated the effects of a single dose of ephedrine (20mg) and caffeine (150 mg) on heart rate, blood pressure, and resting energy expenditure on a group of healthy men and women.

The test subjects (8 of them, yes it is a small study) reported to the lab, rested for 15 mins, and underwent 30 minutes of baseline testing.

They were then randomly assigned to either take the EC combination supplement or a placebo.

Heart rate, blood pressure, energy expenditure, and blood fatty acid levels were determined intermittently during the 3 hour observation period.

Results showed that taking the ephedrine/caffeine supplement promoted :

- a greater increase in resting heart rate (+ 23 bpm, versus +9 in the placebo group). This was observed 60 minutes after ingestion.

- an increase in systolic blood pressure (+9, versus +2). This was observed 3 hours after ingestion.

- an increase in resting energy expenditure (+ 10.7%, versus +4.7%). This was observed 3 hours after ingestion.

- No signifigant changes were detected in diastolic blood pressure.

These findings add to the growing body of evidence that supplementing with the EC stack can elevate resting metabolic rate, with mild changes in heart rate and systolic blood pressure.



Vukovich M.D., Heilman C., Brink J. "Caffeine and ephedrine: Effect on resting heart rate, blood pressure, and energy expenditure. Med Sci Sport Exerc 34 (5): S73, 2002.

Ok, well I'm jumping in with both feet. I read Dan's book last night. Need to go through it again and take some notes. I ordered BetaLean HP and Metabolic Thyrolean this morning from A1supplements $33 + shipping. They have two for one deal right now on Thyrolean. I had to call them to make sure they were shipping the free bottle. Plan of cycling Thyrolean and ECA.

Dan, do you recommend cycling in NYC as well ? If so, how would one cycle between supplements ?

it's in there ...
 

The Beta Lean is an ECA stack

The Thyrolean is a guggul product

The NYC is, well, an NYC stack.

The book covers how to work them all in. :) In the first chapter.

ECA Frequency
 

Dosing frequency really depends on the product you have. Some have 1 capsule = full dose. Some are 2 capules, some a 3 capsules.

If you have one that is 3 capsules (Xenadrine RFX), and it is your first adventure with thermogens try starting with 1 capsule in the morning, 20 - 30 mins before you eat breakfast. Or 20 - 30 mins before your morning cardio workout on an empty stomach. ;)

The typical dose lasts 3 - 5 hours. Your results/reactions may differ. If it is before 3 pm and you don't feel "speedy", you may take a second dose.

Keep in mind the 5 hour thing when timing your doses. If yo utake one too close to bed time, you will have the unpleasant fun of staring at the ceiling half of the night.

Over the weeks, slowly increase your dosage. Maybe 2 pills in the AM by week 3, for example.

You get the picture. :cool: