Liz,
I may have been unclear as to my experience with the negative changes in people. These have been persons in my family and at church. It's as if all of a sudden they don't want to be with heavier people...scared to go back? I don't know. Anyway, I have never found anyone here to be abrasive or uncharitable in any way....quite the opposite, which is probably why this is such a happy, comfortable place to grow, support, and be supported.

Deb

Hi Deb,

I knew that what I was writing wasn't going to come out right. I didn't think that you thought the people in the forum were abrasive or uncharitable in anyway.

What I was trying to say, but obviously didn't say very well (and may not be saying well now, either) was that I think that rather than everyone in the TDC seeing personality traits that may be linked to our excess weight as negatives, we should try to see some of them as positives. The fact that everyone who writes here is so open and caring and empathetic may be linked to their problems with their weight, but it is a good thing.

Liz,
We're on the same page. I wasn't absolutely sure when I read it, that's why I wanted to clarify and make sure you and others understood my comment. Also, I agree wholeheartedly with what you are saying. I think as a whole we are very insightful and sensitive to comments or perceptions that would be hurtful to people in a number of circumstances. I think persons with perceived "imperfections ", whatever they may be, because of our own life experiences, possible become much more tolerant and accepting generally because it would be hard for us to cause pain or hurt to others knowing what it feels like.

Deb

I have known a woman who personified (when I knew her) what Deb was describing. This person (let's call her "Muffy") saw her weight creeping on after high school, until by the time she had been married several years, she weighed around 190. She <I>literally</I> starved herself down to 105 lbs and a size 0 -- she lived on coffee, never ate anything hi-fat, etc. -- in fact, I kind of suspected that she might be bulemic.

Once she hit her goal weight, she seemed to forget how difficult it is to be heavy. Our department would go to lunch, and she would see a fat person, and immediately begin making very disparaging remarks about them ("Well, there's somebody that just needs to slap that egg roll away!" and other such gems), even though two of us in that department were larger women and felt spotlighted by her comments. She hastened to assure us that she didn't think of <I>us</I> that way (yeah, right), but all the same, it felt as though someone had turned a 500-watt lamp onto our plates. Once, one of the women at the table took her to task and said, "Muffy, I'd think you'd be more compassionate -- don't you remember what it felt like when you were heavy?" And her answer -- I remember it word for word, will never forget it -- was, "Well I had the will to do something about it, and if they're too damn sorry to shape up, they deserve to get talked about."

Deb, is that the kind of "evolutionary regression" you were describing?

I left that job many years ago, and I think if I passed this woman on the street or in the mall, I would cross to the other side to avoid speaking. I hate to be so b*tchy, but "if she's too damn sorry to shape up ...", etc.

May none of us ever get like that! I'd much rather stay fat than turn into a mean, uncaring person. That woman must have hated herself when she was fat and then turned the hatred on everyone else after she lost weight because she didn't know what else to do with it.

I suspect she STILL hated herself when she was thin, or she wouldn't have needed to point out imperfections in others.

Too bad she never found the "will" to be pleasant.

She was ...<I>brittle</I>. Does that make sense? Her smile was forced, she stressed out easily, and you felt that it wouldn't take much to make her snap. She and her husband divorced shortly before I left that job.

One of the reasons I could never stick to a lowfat diet was I hated the type of person starving turned me into -- impatient and mean. Every time I tried it I would find myself yelling at my kids over small issues that wouldn't normally bother me and I stressed out over the smallest little things. Low carbing doesn't have that effect on me. I can low carb and continue to like myself and my family. I complain about stress in my life a lot, but I am actually handling it better now than I ever did in the past.

If this woman was starving herself with lowfat food and black coffee all day, that might explain some of her nasty personality. Of course, some people are just basically mean, unpleasant, and judgemental, but I really do think that starving oneself reinforces those personality traits.

I am very grateful that I found this way of eating.

... and this forum. Isn't it grand to be able to discuss these things with folks who understand????

Yes, Celtinore,
You described what I was talking about to a tee! Liz has a point! Nutrition has a lot to do with state of mind....no wonder she couldn't pull herself together! :rolleyes: There are mean people in the world....we just have to step around if we can't help them change.

The other thing I totally agree with is what a different person I am since beginning this woe. I am MUCH more even keel and able to cope better with the stresses in my life. I'm sure because I am fed...regularly and well. I always felt on the edge of bitchy with my family, but not so anymore....lucky them! :D

Also, on the subject of acceptance or not...I was thinking today how much more patient I am with the process of this weight thing than I was at other times in my life. Do any of you find as you age some you come to some realization that the weight loss isn't everything and has to take it's place with respect to what is? At 20, 30, possibly even 40 that wasn't easy for me. Losing weight was the prime objective of life. Now life is the prime objective of life and part of it will be weight loss. Family, relationships, fun, those have moved from the place where they couldn't be enjoyed because I was waiting to do so until I lost weight.

Not sure this even makes sense, but it was swirling around in my head today as I was thinking about this thread and the ways in which I've changed. I often listen to my DD2 and wonder to myself....why can't she just slow down and enjoy what she has....in the end the things she frets about are so meaningless, but she's not there yet. I wasn't either at 25, but we forget.

Ok....I'm stopping...
Deb

Hello everyone!

This is my first post....it's super long...I've been lurking for a while, but I'm ready to join in. I'm so glad to know this forum exists. Thanks for contributing to it--it's been great to read everyone's posts.

AntiM!!!
I was so excited to read your post that I registered myself in this site so that I could reply. Thank you so much for sharing your perspective/journey. I've been hope-hope-hoping to find folks with a similar course as mine. I'd like to share my story, too.

I spent high school starving myself and using diet pills so that I could keep my weight around 130 pounds...I was a dancer and I thought myself disgusting (influenced by the many women/girls in my dance classes who were anorexic, and my instructor who told us that we should weigh no more than 100 pounds if we were to be successful). Fast forward to my first year of college (1995). I got really sick with a serious case of mono, which morphed into the Chronic Fatigue Syndrome that I battle with today...and I gained 100 pounds in the next year.

Luckily, I found the fat acceptance movement. It allowed me to love my body in a way that I never had. I felt so empowered by realizing the patriarchal roots of beauty ideals and delighted in my fat body. For the first time in so long, I didn't obsess about food or drive myself into the ground with compulsive exercise. It was a wonderful, freeing time...for a while...

In the past few years, I've continued to gain weight despite attempting to eat better and move more. I've been diagnosed with more and more health issues that are continually associated with my size--or at least might be improved by losing weight--PCOS, sleep apnea, diabetes, high blood pressure, varicose veins, pseudotumor cerebri (high pressure in the spinal fluid that damages the optic nerve and can lead to vision loss). I've become more and more uncomfortable in my body, and scared for my life. I desperately want to be able to dance again, to move my body the way I remember, to feel strong and healthy. And I don't feel like I can do it at my size. At 283 pounds, I decided to try to lose weight (last month).

This is a really difficult decision for me...in some ways I feel like a sell-out because I've spent so long proclaiming that folks can be fat and healthy and sexy and amazing. And I believe that dieting feeds a capitalist market and distracts us from creating social change. But I'm not healthy anymore. And I feel like my size contributes to that.

I'm also scared of being drawn back into my disordered eating--becoming unhealthily obsessive, consuming my life with the questions of what and how much I'll eat. I'm trying to figure out which LC plan will best suit me...I've been doing a hybrid plan--taking pieces from lots of places, trying to figure out what fits best and will still allow me to lose weight. I'm kind of freaked out. I want to lose weight and I want to do a lot of other things, too!

I guess I'll stop here for now...

Thanks so much for reading all of this. :cool:

<B>Arfmeow:</B> First ... I love your forum name! With all the critters I have around this house, I can certainly identify!




A sell-out ... to whom, dear?

<I>Do you have to be fat to make the case for treating fat people with dignity and respect?</I>

I don't think so.

The beliefs that make you unique, that make you seek compassion and justice where it seldom exists, <I>are not going to disappear when you lose weight.</I> You can still be part of this movement of which you speak; in fact, if you look at it in a broader scope, you are simply affirming <I>that every human being, regardless of appearance, has the right to dignity, respect, and a full life.</I>

Many large people ARE healthy (sumo wrestlers!), sexy (Mae West!), and amazing (Orson Welles, Nell Carter). I have a dear friend who tops 400 lbs and she is perfectly content with her size and her life.

Many others, including me, including you, have health problems that could be fixed (or lessened) by slimming down and firming up. The fact that we're taking the steps to do just that does not mean that we are rushing to join the ranks of the thin, unfeeling fat-bashers who design airline seats.

It means that we love our bodies, and are listening to the messages they are sending us.

You have helped others achieve self-love, and that is an amazing thing in this cruel and crazy world. You are losing weight for the very same reason -- because you love your body and you want it to be well -- and that is amazing, too. With a foundation of good health, you can devote your energies to working for change -- in fact, you'll have more energy to devote! ;) And when the going gets hard, we are here to support you.

<I>Never apologize for loving yourself.</I> Never. <I>Never.</I>

Celtinore,

Wow...powerful words....

Thank you so much for your encouraging and thoughtful reply. I agree that I can be a part of the fat acceptance movement even while trying to lose weight...really getting this causes me to twist my reasoning around a bit to see clearly.

I think your question of 'to whom am I selling out?' is a fabulous one. It reminds me that it is of the utmost importance that I care for myself first... even if this means that I am trying to lose weight.

I appreciate your support!

Oops, Nell Carter died earlier this year at age 54. She had diabetes.

Celtinore, I agree with you on the rest though. You don't have to be overweight to preach fat acceptance. Everyone deserves to be treated with respect and dignity.

Arfmeow, you learned to love yourself and your body in the acceptance movement, what better way to prove your love than to take care of your health issues?

Welcome Arfmeow,

I think that approaching low carbing for the reasons you are -- love of your body and the wish for it to be healthier -- is a great way to go. After hanging out on this forum for months, I've noticed that the people who hate their body and want it to disappear tend to be much less successful at low carbing than the people who are doing it for health reasons and are willing to to patient and accept their own human imperfections. Wanting to be healthier does not mean that you are suddenly going to want to look like an anorexic model.

Some people can be fat and healthy, but it seems to catch up with most of us sooner or later. It caught up with you earlier than it did with a lot of us. In a way, that's good, because I think you will find it easier to lose the weight than you would if you were 20 years older.

I agree with Saski and Celtinore -- you don't have to be overweight in order to preach fat acceptance, anymore than you have to be gay to preach gay acceptance, or .... I could go on and on.

I am struggling with the issue of how to love and accept myself while still wanting to change myself -- as are many others in the TDC. However, I think it is a legitimate struggle and we can all do better by approaching it together.

Hello AntiM :wave:

Enjoy reading your posts and replys.

I am on day #12 of Induction.

Right now all I can focus on is 20 carbs a day !! :daze:

I go to your post often to get a laught at your picture.

It is a hoot !!!

Is that your yard or what?

Is that your statue?

I would love to put that picture up on my frig.

It makes me laugh. :lol:

Good luck :thup:

Chloe Mae

Quick (off topic) history lesson :D

The stone in AntiM's picture is a recast/copy/representation of what is called the Goddess of Willendorf.

The original is around 25,000-30,000 years old and is the oldest known human representation on this planet. She was found in Austria and is small enough to fit perfectly in the palm of your hand.

I have several Goddess of Willendorf's in my house, it is a wonderful representation of the female form ...

If you like these kinds of images of the female form run a search for the Goddess of Laussel, Goddess of Lespugue, Nathor and Ishtar (just to name a few)

History lesson over :D

:D Fiona :D

Welcome Arfmeow!
 

It's an honor and a pleasure to meet you, Arfmeow! How cool to find someone else here who was active in the Fat Acceptance movement! There are so many incredible people posting to this forum - I hope you enjoy getting involved here as much as I have. I’m going to write a real reply to your post - I just had to reply right away and let you know that I’m psyched you are posting.

XOXO Monika

Hi Chloë Mae!

I've enjoyed reading your posts, too ... I'm working on my sixth week of 20-ish carbs daily so now I'm an 'expert'! LOL

Fiona gave a great 'history lesson' about my avator. I'll try to find the site where I got the picture, so you can print out a larger version for your fridge.

XOXO Monika

Hello, thanks for the history lesson and the references. Very interesting. I would have never known.

How different that this earliest female form is rotund. Brings to mind, Rueben's paintings.

Just reinforces my notion that we don't need to look like Twiggy. Just look and be at a healthy weight. :agree: