I just wanted you thank you guys for the great information!! This is something I've believed in, but always wondered about and didn't really "get," making discussions with people who are anti-fat, and even pro-low carb (my husband) but sceptical about the very large amounts of fat difficult because there were some things about this woe I could not explain.

Have a great weekend,
Meg

I just had to reply to this post...actually was linked here from another board to read this about fat...

I've been KISSING (eating nothing but roasted turkey and legal veggies), for the last 4 days. I actually added in an extra serving of veggies yesterday and used yesterday's menu to plug into Fitday.com (just to see exactly what I am really eating here). Would you believe, I started on day one at 158 lbs (which I somehow had gone up to from 154 about 5 weeks ago--not doing anything differently with my regular lowcarb fare), AND today I am at 157.4--5 days into this!! Here is my breakdown from Fitday (I am not convinced that reducing calories OR adding fat for that mater is the answer to my problem --since I have been stuck here for 4.5 years!!!):

Cals: 914
Fat: 56 gms
Carbs 16
Prot 87 (maybe too much??)

%'s
Fats: 56%
Carbs: 5%
Prot: 39%

I don't know what else to tweak!
Thanks for letting me vent!

Carol

Carol, correct me if I am wrong, but KISS isn't about limiting fat - it's about avoiding frankenfoods and sugar replacements and getting back to basics. Basics, according to the Atkins center is aiming for 65% fat.

Can I believe that your weight has shot up eating 900 calories a day? You bet I can. This is typically what happens when you restirct calories too much for too long.

-Nat

oops please read above

oh no.....
 

Hi,
Remember that you need to induce your body to start burning fat and get into Ketosis. the only way to burn fat, is by eating fat. don´t worry about fat consumption, worry about getting less than 20 gms of carbs.

Try that for a week, ok and see if it works for you. It should.
If you do no loose weight then try eliminating all carbs consumption. If that don't work neither, then you have a metabolic resistance.

Thanks--I pulled out my Atkins book again the other night and re-read the chapter on Metabolically Resistant people...(i.e. that would be me...I havent' lost a thing on regular induction).
So, here I am as of yesterday, starting Fat fast (had done it quite some time ago, but only lost a lb. and promptly gained it back going back to induction).

Carol

THIS is an excellent thread. I was very confused before abou the entire high calorie/high fat equals weight loss. I wasn't sure how this was possible. I was doing the high fat/low calorie thing. So here is my question...Since I'm a little obsessive, I know I will continue to count calories, but this time I will count to make sure I'm not going too low. Where should I try to keep the cals?

Rosemam, they say you should be eating 10-12 times your body weight in calories a day. Good luck on your new endeavor.

I have a question...My cholesterol has gone way up after being on Atkin's for 5 months. Does anyone know what I should cut back on? I know I eat too much red meat and use too much heavy cream so I've cut back on those but I'm not willing to quit the diet. My stats aren't current...I am now down to 163! Thanks for any advise! Nicki

hi Nicki,

I've replied to your question here. YOu're actually doing just fine :thup:


Doreen

So what becomes the "cutoff" point for "the absence of insulin"? If one is increasing carbs past the Induction level, when does this metabolic advantage no longer exist?

So the 10-12X rule we see kicking around should actually be higher?

Wanda

Ignore this! I never did excell at math. :rolleyes: But I'm still curious about what the "absence of insulin" is defined as.

Wanda

hi Wanda,

Sorry I didn't see your post previously :( The "absence of insulin" refers more to its lack of action than its lack of physical presence, and is relative to glucagon as the dominant metabolic hormone. As I'd stated in that same post, my explanation is very simplistic. The intent was to allay the fat phobias of lowcarbers who have a hard time accepting that they won't blow up as big as a house if they eat more than the Food Pyramid levels of fat ... There is a link in that post to another thread, which does offer more in-depth discussion on the matter .. http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthre...2411#post182411

Insulin is always present, even in a ketogenic diet, although the amount is very low. Because there are a few cells in the body which can only use glucose (red blood cells, the retina of the eye and a small part of the mid-brain), a nominal amount of insulin is secreted to enable the uptake of glucose .. which is made quite nicely in the liver from protein, via the process of gluconeogenesis. The only time where there is a true absence of insulin is when the beta cells of the pancreas fail .. resulting in Type 1 diabetes.


As to the "10 - 12 x" thing ... to the best of my knowledge, it's intended to be a ballpark guide to aim at, offered to folks who are evidently undereating to encourage them to eat more. Inevitably, folks want to know "how much more?", so a guide such as 10 - 12 x weight in calories can be helpful to know how much is the least to strive for.


Hope that helps :rose:


Doreen

Hi Doreen:

Thanks for that link. Sorry, I was taking a simplistic answer and making it more complicated. I guess the only way to know that the "absense of insulin" (meaning absense of action) is alive and well is if one is in ketosis. That's very interesting data you've provided.

Wanda

Bump
 

I like this thread, so I give it a big (((((BUMP)))))!

Bump
 

Just bumping this thread up. It sure helped me with my questions.
Hope it helps you! :)

Well, its been quite awhile since I've peeked back at this thread--several months in fact. I will say this, I noticed I was at 158 the last time I was here (had started Atkins "clean" no cheats, 5 years ago and even gained 4-5 lbs on it). I'm not at all saying Atkins doesn't work --it just didn't work for my SLOW metabolism--even the fat fast...

I finally found a plan that works for my 'slow as molasses' metabolism. Its Lean for Life. I am now 12 lbs less (146) than I was the last time I was here....
And yes, you're correct about the cals and 'survival' mode. On this plan, I was told I needed to go on Metabolic Adjustment because I had really slowed down my 'burner' from all of the dieting. I was also told that there are a few folks (I'm apparently one of them), who don't do as well on higher fat.
Just thought I would give an update.
Carol

A few claims in this thread are a little disturbing, such as the claim that the body can't convert dietary fat into body fat with low insulin levels. Feed someone 10,000 kcal of fat, it will store plenty of extra fat. The body has to do something about it.

I don't know if it is such a good idea to plan in the "metabolic advantage" into your daily caloric estimates. I know that the inefficiencies of ketosis mostly go away after a while as the body adjusts which organs need ketones and which can live off tryglycerides.

It may be because I'm 53, but I know that for some reason, I (unfortunately), cannot rely on this 'metabolic advantage' for my own wt. loss. Believe me, I sure wish I could--I really enjoyed the Atkins plan and saw so many people losing tons of weight on it. This 'bod' has to go the lower fat/lower cal route (with smaller meals more frequently throughout the day) --with a heavy dose of exercise too!


Carol

Lots of great info here - I'm still trying to be ok with eating fat after 10 years of Ornish/McDougall LF/mostly veg eating (and gaining 60 lbs :mad: ). Carbs were killing me! Still gravitating toward lower fat meats out of habit . . . but enjoying coffee w/ h&h tremendously :D !

Wanted to bump this thread as it is imprtant

Hey VegoMum,

Thanks for bringing this threadup. I just spent an hour reading and my eyes are openned. More Calories (from fat) for me tomorrow.

Thank you all who contributed:bhug: :clap:

Still eatin' fat and losing weight! Yahoo! :agree:

i'm confused now. the original poster said she gained weight by eating more fat so I am even more confused than before I read this post.

This might give you some insight

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=31615

Karen

Stuart,
I am starting to think that a low GI diet would be better than just atkins.

As far as I have read - the body can turn excess protein into fat; protein will raise insulin if carbs are restricted enough. So most of the people who eat large amounts of proteins should eventually stall. (According to this theory)

I am starting to wonder if a balance of carbs & proteins with portion control is best. And also, I have been reading a tad on the hormonal thing and I am begining to wonder about that.

Your big words baffle me; I only half get what you are saying. It takes a bit for new ideas to sink in my old noggin- but I am on the case now; once I start considering new things I cant stop.

I enjoyed reading your ideas and I have read similar things.

Anyway, if you have a list of books or sites about these ideas, please let me know. I am very interested.

Metabolism and the Mature Woman
 

I wish I could rely on a higher fat diet to lose. It just doesn't work for me. I went the high fat route for two years and could only lose about twenty pounds. I cut out the dairy and the artificial sweeteners and it didn't change anything. I think that for me anyway, as I've gotten older (49) my metabolism just can't handle eating pork steaks on a daily basis anymore. :lol: It's sad, but there you go. Those calories counted for me.

I'm now eating at about 23 percent fat, 32 percent carbs, 45 percent protein, I average about 100 grams of carb a day from vegetables and fruits. My fats come from low fat dairy, meat and fish, and fish oil. I eat only very lean cuts of beef, chicken breast, turkey and fish. I vary my calories in two week blocks from 1200 to 1500. I've been lifting weights and doing aerobic exercise for five weeks now. I'm finally getting past the initial twenty pounds that I lost on the high fat plan and I'm doing this in record time for me.

I have no doubt that for my pre menopausal metabolism that this is the right route for me. It's working and I feel great.

I'm so grateful for this forum because it offers so many different low carb plans that we can experiment with until we find the one that works for us. One size does not fit all. :)

Signey

WOW! Great thread! I just recently was wondering, with my excercise level so high, why the scale wasn't moving. I work out 5 times a week. 3 days 6 mile run and the other 2 weight lifting. I too, think I was eating too little bit. I read somewhere, I think from Doreen, that a large person needs at least 60 grams of protein a day.?.? I think it was something like that. On the "What causes stalls section". I am so not even close to that intake. So, I started eating more protein and am trying to eat smaller more frequent meals and have so much energy. I hope this is the answer to my prayers. Thanks Doreen & Andy for the info....;) :wave:

shpgrl..you look amazing! the scale probably isn't moving because you're building muscle while you lose fat....since you're working out so much..i bet you're losing inches tho! Keep up the good work...and way to go!

Sam22,
Thanks for the encouragement! Hey, You go girl! YOu've done a great job yourself! Keep it up!;) :angel: :angel:

I read through all of the great information here and the fat stuff makes sense, but I am a little confused about the calories stuff. I know some people have to count calories even when eating lc, I think I may be one of those, but are you supposed to eat 10 to 12 times your current weight in calories or 10 to 12 times your desired weight? Or just ignore it all? :lol: