as more and more low carb products hit the shelves I think we all need to be aware of misleading labels, innaccurate counts, and flat out lies! :nono: a while ago I bought some chocolate covered almonds from a new company that claimed 0 net carbs. HELLO! almonds have carbs! :rolleyes: anyway, I think companies are seeing a lot of $$$ in low carb fare right now and are rushing to get their products to the shelves. the fewer carbs on the label the more $$$$ they make. labeling laws are not yet cracking down on false carb claims....for years it was the carb count that no one really cared about. hopefully soon we will see some changes that will make companies produce accurate labels. for now, I think we all need to be vigilent in reading labels and not believing everything we read!

Guys I am still lost on this. I never took algebra. I've read all of your math equations, but I am totally lost here. What numbers do I look at using this Hidden Carbs Inspector?

Have gone to Hidden Carbs Inspector several times now. Have entered the following:
calories 36, fat 0, protein 1, minus fiber - left blank, fiber .5. Entered Spices & Herbs got this:
carb factor 3.21, fat factor 8.27, protein 2.73, actual carb 10.36, difference by wt 9.36.
When I changed Spices & Herbs to Soups and Sauces,
carb factor of 3.964, fat factor of 8.863, protein of 3.82, actual carbs 8.12, difference by wt 7.12. And when I used Finfish & Shellfish Products, got 3.9111, 9.01429, 4.26216, 8.11, 7.11.

Can anyone catch me up to speed here?

All you need to pay attention to is where is says: actual carbs = (whatever number it gives).

This number is the "actual" carbs the product contains, regardless of what the label said. The different "factors" (carb factor, fat factor, protein factor) are what each gram of those respective food components are multiplied by in order to reach a sum total of calories.

The factors number changes depending on which category you chose for the sauce. That is why one time the factor for fat is 8.27 and another time it is 8.863. The same falls true for the carb and protein factor numbers. They are simply being adjusted depending on food "type".

Bottom line: All you need to pay attention to is where is says: actual carbs = (whatever number it gives).

If you would like an "easier to understand" hidden carb counter, you can go to this link:

http://www.carbaware.org/consumer/counter.htm

BTW, I have received a response from the President of Steel's about this and will post it here...but after I eat my breakfast. She does acknowledge that the carb count is wrong.

JFF:D

what I do is work backwards.

1)take the total calories in a serving.

2)usually the listed values of fat grams and protien grams are correct. so if you take the # of fat grams listed, multiply by 9 (9 calories per gram of fat), then subtract that # from the total calories.

3) then take the # of protien grams listed, multiply by 4 (4 calories per protien gram) then subtract that # from the total caorie count.

4) after subtracting the fat calories and protien calories from the total calories, the number remaining is the calories from carbs. we know carbs have 4 calories per gram. divide the remaining calories by 4, and you have the actual carb count. then figure in fiber if any.

Very Large Update Follows!!!
 

OK, everybody! I received a reply from the company President, Betty Jo Steel. :yay:

I will post what she had to say, followed by my reply to her. Please be aware that I know that this is a LOT to read (and no one says you have to), but no one can ever claim that I am not thorough.;) I might note that she did respond very quickly on the evening of Feb. 9, so the delay in getting the information to you is my fault, not hers. I have been busy lately.:o

Also pay close attention to my reply, as I reveal that more than just the cocktail sauce might have labeling errors, as alluded to earlier. Here we go::)

Ms. Betty Jo Steel's response:

Quote:

Dear [edited for privacy]: Thank-you for your correction on our carb count for Steel's Cocktail Sauce. I telephoned the lab that does testing for us and was told that we had not had them test the final version, and do the nutritional for us. This product is 90% Steel's Sugar Free Ketchup which has an approved nutritional with 0 carbs. The serving size for ketchup is, however , only 1 Tablespoon (17g). The serving size for cocktail sauce (FDA) is 4 Tablespoons or 68g. When we saw the analytical numbers, ketchup is .8 g. per serving . If you multiply that by 4 and then by 90% you have 2.9g of carb. The prepared horseradish adds .10 g of carb per serving, and the lemon juice adds .o8g. This adds up to 3.14g.per 68g.serving. We, at Steel's, apologize for this error and I take full responsibility because I did the calculations based on our previously tested Ketchup (90%) of the recipe, and the USDA Composition of Foods numbers. I know how important each carb becomes when you are on a strict program. We take great pride in producing delicious products with accurate claims. We will correct this error on our website- steelsgourmet.com, and print new labels immediately with the accurate carb count. We are not allowed to do fractions of less than .5 under present ruling and must round the carb count to 3 on the nutritional panel. The FDA will soon issue some new rulings for low-carb and they may allow us to report to the first decimal. Send any suggestions you might have regarding labeling and claims to the FDA. They are talking about having anything under 9 carbs qualify for "low carb." We think that it should depend on the reference food. They will take comments for the next few months. We make 24 low carb products with Splenda which has no nutritional value, but we make another 20 with maltitol which may have some nutritional value. We welcome regulation on the whole category. If you have any further questions, call us or e-mail us. We are trying to make your diet interesting and effective. Yours truly, Betty Jo Steel, President.

My reply:

Quote:

Ms. Steel, Let me thank you for addressing this matter in such a quick and sincere manner. That alone goes a long way in endearing consumers to continue purchasing your products, myself included. That being said, however, I must still question the information you have provided to me and bring your attention to additional products of yours, which display incorrect labeling. This may also be insightful as to why the "Cocktail Sauce" has an incorrect carb count to begin with. First, you state that, "ketchup is .8 g. per serving. If you multiply that by 4 and then by 90% you have 2.9g of carb. The prepared horseradish adds .10 g of carb per serving, and the lemon juice adds .o8g. This adds up to 3.14g." With all due respect, I must correct your math and tell you that the total is 3.08 grams. While that error is insignificant, it led me to believe that there may be other errors as well. I believe I have found a major one with your "Rocky Mountain Low-carb Ketchup". Let me explain. You state that your "Cocktail Sauce" relies on the fact that it is based on your "Rocky Mountain Low-carb Ketchup" by saying, "this product is 90% Steel's Sugar Free Ketchup which has an approved nutritional with 0 carbs". However, I believe that the carb count for your ketchup is also incorrect. After running your nutritional data through the standard caloric formula of: Total Calories = 9(Fat grams) + 4(Protein grams) + 4(Carb grams) ,the carb count for your ketchup comes to "2.5 grams" of carbs per serving, NOT the "0" or ".08" carbs you claim. You can also check this by using the following online carb calculators: http://www.carbaware.org/consumer/counter.htm http://www.lowcarb.ca/low-carb-tools/hidden_carbs.html Also, I believe the serving size you stated for your ketchup may also be incorrect. You said, "the serving size for ketchup is, however , only 1 Tablespoon (17g)". However, your website clearly shows on the label for your ketchup, that the actual serving size is "2 Tbsp. (17g)". This can be seen here: http://www2.theworldataclick.com/01...ppingCartID=182 Hopefully, you can make clear what the actual serving size is. In addition, I have always understood 2 Tbsp.(ketchup serving) to be equivalent to 28 grams, NOT 17 grams. Likewise the serving size for the cocktail sauce is also in question. I always believed 4 Tbsp. to equal 56 grams, NOT 68 grams. I must admit, that it is getting increasingly confusing, because of your product's label discrepancies, to follow through to a logical conclusion as to accurate nutritional data. But, I will continue. :-) Now, if you follow your process of how you arrive at the cocktail sauce by using the ketchup as 90% of the product, then your formula for determining the counts for the cocktail sauce is faulty as well. This is because your stated serving size for the cocktail sauce (4 Tbsp) is TWICE what the serving size is for the ketchup (2 Tbsp), according to your website. This, of course doesn't take into account the grams per tablespoon discrepancy I mentioned earlier. I will leave it to you to make it more clear "which" measuring units you actually employ and hold to be accurate. If you calculate the carb grams as I did above for the ketchup's 2 Tbsp serving size, it must then be DOUBLED, because you are getting twice as much of that product in a normal 4 Tbsp serving size of the cocktail sauce. It might possibly even be 4 times as much if you go by your statement that the serving size for ketchup is 1 Tbsp. If so, this makes it even worse. Still with me? Good. So, take the 2.5 carbs, multiply that by 2 and then by 90% and you now arrive at 4.5 carb. Add the horseradish (.10) and the lemon (.08) and the total effective carb count for the cocktail sauce now comes to 4.68 carbs per 4 Tbsp. serving. Granted this is lower than the original finding of "8 carbs" per serving, but it is still vastly different than "1 carb" as stated. It is also different than the "3.14g" you arrive at in your reply. I must point out as well, that even if 4.68 grams or 3.14 grams are correct carb counts, they will NEVER appear to be unless the calorie, fat, or protein counts are modified as well to reflect the change so that the caloric formula works properly. Also, it further amplifies the fact that, while there are labeling errors on the cocktail sauce, the errors on your ketchup need to seriously be addressed as well. Finally, I see that several of your products are based on your ketchup in a similar fashion as the cocktail sauce. It only stands to reason that those products labels may be incorrect as well. I ran your other ketchup based products through the carb counters at the links above and found other discrepancies. Here is what I found: Item----------------------------------------Label--------------------Carb Counters Rocky Mountain Barbecue Sauce-----------2.0---------------------3.75 - 3.78 Rocky Mountain Hoisin Sauce---------------2.0---------------------2.75 - 2.82 Rocky Mountain Sweet & Sour Sauce------2.0---------------------2.50 - 2.52 These discrepancies aren't as drastic as the one with the cocktail sauce, but I believe they do further represent a problem with your ketchup analysis. In conclusion, although I have gone to great detail to bring this issue to light, I want to make it clear to you that your apology and offer to quickly correct the labels was much appreciated. Your actions are indicative of a responsible manufacturer who deserves to be applauded for their forthrightness, honesty and eagerness to correct things. I hope that you will not take my communications as a slight against your company, as I know human error can happen. I am pleased to know that you will be taking action to correct the label(s) and website and will be looking for the new information. I would also like to mention that I found your comments on the proposed FDA labeling legislation enlightening. If you find that anything I have stated in this reply to be incorrect or my math to be at fault, please let me know. I welcome your response as my true aim is to provide accurate information, as I 'm sure your is. Thanks again for your prompt attention regarding this matter. Sincerely, [edited for privacy]

If you are still here, then I am so proud of you! :D

I realize that was a lot to read, but I hope everyone can understand it. The bottom line is that there ARE label errors and inconsistencies on some of the Steel's products. Also, they are aware of these and we have been told they will be corrected. So, what counts do you use until this all shakes out??

I don't know.:cry:

There you go. Clear as mud!:D And the saga continues.....

I will post more as it comes in.

JFF

JustForFun,

You need to remember that just like the total carb count, the protien count rounds to zero if it's less than 1. Also the actual numbers for Fat/carbs/protien are not 9/4/4 those are rounded also. I would tend to believe the 0.8 carbs per serving from the lab is acurate. Also a tablespoon is 14.78 ml of water or aprox 15g assuming 1ml water = 1g. I dont know what the mass of their ketchup is, but if the lab claims to have measured 17g it was probably 17g on the nose. Bottom line is when your dealing with very small numbers to begin with (10 cals) and fractions of carbs, fat and protien, the calculations can get skewed very easily. I'd stick with the 3 carbs per serving she told you for a 68g serving.

Great Job JustforFun...

Have to say I am impressed with your letter...perhaps you'll get a lifetime supply of Ketchup and such!!

Good Luck

JFF,

Excellent JOB! BRAVO!! I think your letters were clear and precise. I'm also happy that Steel's answered you so quickly! I'm impressed that customer service still rules!

As Frecles earlier posted, "This is the kind of thing that makes me GLAD I can't afford many lc products...". For myself, this diet has made me get interested in cooking. I really think the whole basics of Atkins is good, wholesome, basic foods and lose the over processed, stablizer filled, preservative laden food that we are inudated daily by the media, groceries, resturants.
The closer the food is from the earth to our mouth, the better for us. JMO.
Please post Steel's next reply. We're all anxious to follow this story. And I think your first post, and letters to Steel's should be posted on some of the other forums here! We should put other's to the test of their products too. Like Atkins, EAS, to name a few.

And, lastly, thank you for the math lessons.

Thanks for the kind words everyone. Knowing that someone finds this pursuit useful makes it worthwhile.

I'm probably coming across as obsessed about this particular matter to everybody, but I *honestly* believe I am not. Whether or not I eat a few carbs or not more than I thought or intended isn't really the point here. To me, it is about accountability.

As the low-carb WOL grows and manufacturers increasingly jump on the bandwagon to get a piece of the pie (pun intended), we as consumers will have to be ever more diligent and aware of what they are promoting or selling.

Posting this is mainly a way to illustrate that NO ONE is above reproach or suspicion when it comes to labeling and low-carb claims. Nutrition labels, while they have come a long way in the last 20 years, are still esentially the "wild west" when it comes to carb labeling.:nono:

AS far as the math, don't sweat it. This stuff can very easily get complicated and mind-numbing. LOL! :)

And yes, while FREE stuff would be nice, that isn't why I am pursuing this. As promised, I will post updates as they come in.

JFF:D

Something something, math something, a thing about ketchup, math math something, something something, divide that by three and set it up next to Belgium, something something, garlic? :help:

I'm glad everyone took so much time with this, it's a real lesson to just stick to meat & salad ;) seriously, thank you. My brains melted and slid out my ear; I could never have done this.

Pshaaaawwwwwww!!
 

Ummmmmmmm...too boring for me.:) And I was having meat - shrimp. The sauce was simply to serve as a complement to it. To suggest we give up on condiments is fallacy. And I assume you aren't really serious.

I must say, however, that your post truly made me laugh. ROFL! Very clever and witty. :D

JFF

Nope, not serious. Based on the advertised count, I'd have tried it too! I also miss cocktail sauce.

But if maths are going to be involved in new foods then I'm up a creek in a chicken wire boat!

Thank you for the follow up JFF, interesting reading.

OMG!
Im not an idiot but my head is spinning from this times that plus this devided by the other!!
Thats an ad for staying away from LC products if I ever heard one..

I dont have time to calculate the stuff I put in my mouth like that.. If it says 2 grams.. then it should BE 2 grams... Makes me SICK..
I only trust Atkins products and probably shouldnt trust those either..

Isnt the FDA or the someone looking into standardizing labels because of just this???

I have to say I'm with you on this one! :lol:

All kidding aside, though, I totally agree with you, JFF, that these companies NEED to be held accountable and in this instance I think you're doing a lovely job of it. I've heard nothing but raves about Steels products and although I haven't personally bought any of them it's disconcerting to think that people have and have been mislead by the labels. I don't think you're obsessing at all...you did what SOMEONE needed to do so that all the rest of us aren't victims of faulty math. :yay:

Important Update - Worse than I thought if true.
 

Hello again! :)

I have once again received word from Steel's, and if what I have previously proposed holds true, it might even be worse than I first suggested. Ugh!:cry:

I have been informed by Margareta Williams of Sales & Marketing for Steel's, that I was correct in suggesting their website reflected an incorrect serving size for their "Rocky Mountain Ketchup".

The website has been updated to correct the serving size from "2 Tablespoons" to "1 Tablespoon".

Here is the email I recieved:Thus, what I stated in my earlier email could potentially have even a more negative impact on the "true" carb count of their "Cocktail Sauce". I refer to my calculations from earlier:How much worse?

Instead of "doubling" the carb grams for ketchup to calculate the grams for the cocktail sauce, you must now "QUADRUPLE" the ketchup's carb grams. Because you are now getting four(4) times as much of that product in a normal 4 Tablespoon serving size of the cocktail sauce. OUCH!

Thus, the calculation changes for the Cocktail Sauce changes. I will demonstrate. I know - MORE MATH!! ;) (Look away if it hurts your brain)

Take the 2.5 carbs per 1 Tablespoon Serving for the ketchup, multiply that by 4 and then by 90% and you now arrive at 9.0 carbs. Add the horseradish (.10) and the lemon (.08) and the total effective carb count for the cocktail sauce now comes to 9.18 carbs per 4 Tbsp. serving!!:eek:

Here we go again! LOL.:) Now, of course, all of this solely depends on what they find to be the "true" carb count for their ketchup. If their kethcup's carb count turns out to be much lower, then everything I have just said will change once again. *sigh*

Finally, those of you who actually "have" a bottle of Steel's Ketchup handy, could you please take a look and let me know what the serving size is?? I am just curious, as I have never seen one in person.:D

Thanks everybody! All of your support and kind words are inspiring me to see this through.

More to follow................

JFF:D

JFF,

Keep up the excellent work! As consumers we have the power to make these companies change things for the better!

Everyone, go to Atkins.Com and read,
"A New and Innovative Approach to the Food Pyramid."
by Stuart Lawrence Trager, M.D.

JFF Still think you should melt this down to the bare bones and post it on the other forums here.

Can't wait for the next answer about this.

blueflyer,

I am not sure that cross-posting this on other forums is even allowed here. some messageboards consider that as "spamming". Besides, I don't even know where I would begin to "melt" this post. My tendency to be verbose makes that somewhat difficult. Hahaha.:) I will think about it, but I'm not sure it's even necessary.

IN OTHER NEWS:

Check out This Link for a very enlightening article on the very issue this thread is about - under reported carb counts on labels.:eek:

A newsstation in Los Angeles investigated several products and discovered vast discrepancies between label claims and lab results when they had the products independantly tested.

Looks like we will have to stay ever vigilant about this and not fully believe anything we read on labels until the FDA chimes in on this.

JFF:D