I didn't read all the responses so I hope I'm not repeating anything.

1) Yes, a pound of fat contains more colories than a pound of carbs, BUT ...
Most people on the atkins diet - due to it's apetite supressing nature - eat far less calories than people that are eating "normally."
So the atkins people are consuming the right amount of calories for weight loss while the "normal" people are consuming too much and are storing the excess as fat.

2) Yes, the initial big weight loss is water loss but that is true for ALL diets.
After that water loss the rest is fat - it is impossible to lose ONLY water on atkins - or any other diet - especaially if we're sticking to the drink-as-much-water-as-you-can thing.

3) Not a balanced diet?
After the first two restrictive weeks (during which most Atkins dieters eat more healthy vegetables than the average american) you are supposed to start adding even more vegetables. Eventually, once on maintenance, your diet is so well balanced it is healthier than most other diets out there.
The average western diet is VERY unbabalanced, people are eating too many simple carbs and calories and THAT is what is causing the obesity in the world.

4) On the atkins diet the body uses FAT for fuel - hence the fact that it is a high FAT diet. Once all the carbs in the body have been used up as fuel - usually after the first few days of the diet, the body switches to fat burning mode - not muscle burning mode.
"the body then starts to digest muscle due to having no carbohydrate to feed on"
This is a stupid and very uninformed statement.

5) Atkins is NOT a no carb diet, it is a LOW carb diet. This is a mistake too many ignorant people make.
If someone is going to give their opinions on a subject they should be informed on that subject, read the book or at the very least try to find out the actual facts of the diet.

I wanted to answer them in person (which is why I asked for the link), but here is what I would have said ;).


Good work sport. You've learned 1 gram of fat contains 9 calories, and 1 gram of carbohydrate/protein contains only 4. Unfortunately, this does not mean eating less fat/more carbs equals more weight loss... in fact, the very opposite is true. I will now explain in length why FAT, not CARBS, is a superior main fuel source when trying to lose weight. Pay attention now, because things get a little more complex at this point.

1) Fat satiates hunger. While it is true 50 carb calories of bread or oatmeal seems like you are eating more food than 100 fat calories of nuts, your body won't be fooled. First of all, as you low fat zealots like to say, "a calorie is a calorie" and your body doesn't think fiber or water (which is why carbs are so bulky despite having less calories) are nutrition sources. Yes, eating fiber and drinking water can help curb excess appetite, but at the end of the day a certain amount of net calories, regardless of where they came from, are needed fuel your body.

At this point you may be wondering then, if I seem to agree "calories are calories", why I am arguing that fat satiates hunger. The answer is simple. Not all macronutrient sources are the same to your body. You calorie counting to control weight theorists are probably going to blow your tops at this point.

1.1) Studies have shown fat consumption raises concentration of the satiety hormone PYY. (link)
PYY is the counterpart to ghrelin (one of the several hormones regulating food intake). Whereas ghrelin levels rise when the stomach is empty, they decrease after eating. PYY and ghrelin work together like a see saw; when ghrelin is high, PYY is low (making you feel hunger) and vice versa. So, eating a higher percentage of calories from fat will make you feel very satiated. Actually, many people on very very low carb diets such as Atkins often have to force themselves to eat! This is the reason why.

1.2) Fats are metabolized very slowly. I have just explained how studies have shown increasing percentage of calories from fat stimulates the production of PYY. In other words, eating a higher percentage of calories from fat keeps you satiated longer. The reason this is so, is because the pathways involved in fat metabolism are much less efficient than the ones for sugar metabolism. Basically, just as Dr.Atkins has been trying to tell people for years: fats are digested slowly and regulate appetite. When you eat a higher percentage of calories from fat, they stay in the stomach and intestines longer. This means your belly is physically full for a longer amount of time, your PYY concentrations will be higher, ghrelin will be lower, all of which works in concert resulting in a wonderful feeling of satiety.
Bulky fiber can also mimic fat's ability to raise PYY, as it sits in the stomach and intestines for a long time undigested. That is why high carbohydrate diets are only tolerable when they are from extremely high fiber sources. But even fiber does not suppress appetite like fat does, as studies have shown. Furthermore, when carbohydrate has been stripped of fiber (such as in cola drinks and high fructose corn syrup), it provides almost no satiety value. This bares repeating, because this is the core principle behind low carbing. Simple sugars stripped of their fiber do not sit in the stomach long; they immediately enter the bloodstream and can be slurped down in bulk without thinking. Calories from simple sugars like these (INCLUDING very refined flours and breads as well) more than anything are the biggest contributers to the epidemic of "syndrome x".

1.3) Simple carbohydrates are metabolized very quickly. Though it may seem a bit redundant to say this after explaining how fat is satiating, this aspect of the human metabolism is so essential and crucial to understanding weight problems, that it warrants its own point. Carbohydrates which have been adulterated, stripped of their natural fibers and nutrients, packaged and sold as breads and sugar are digested very rapidly. This means they a) do not sit in the stomach for long, thus leaving us with abnormally high levels of grehlin (hunger) shortly after eating, and b) flood our bloodstream with fuel too rapidly, resulting in an overabundance of fuel. This "sugar rush" must be dealt with by the fuel mobilizing hormone insulin. The hormone insulin works like a little trolley sending energy to its proper place. Eating food which is very rapidly digested, such as a slurpee from 7-11 (a fat free food! :rolleyes:), causes your body to absolutely flood with sugar. It also forces your body to overproduce insulin to handle the load. Now in a perfect world, your body would produce only as much insulin as needed to level off your blood sugar, all the time, and any excess energy would be stored in your muscles and fat cells for usage later. Your body would seamlessly make the transition to using muscle glycogen and fat, without an overwhelming feeling of hunger.
Too bad we don't live in a perfect world. :)

Unfortunately, after binging on crap foods like this for long enough, we begin to develop metabolic disorders which impair our glucose metabolisms such as insulin resistance, excessive insulin production, and eventually diabetes. These metabolic disorders upset our bodies ability to metabolize sugar properly, and in such individuals when such foods are consumed they are met by an excessive surge of insulin, one so high that it causes their blood sugar to plummet shortly after.
Now, when you were a kid you might have been able to handle the junk food and fast food (if you are one of those lucky types who doesn't have a strong genetic predisposition to IR), but as an adult you may find yourself feeling sluggish after eating high sugar foods, and irritable and hungry soon thereafter. This cycle is known as hyper/hypoglycemia. This metabolic disorder is the result of an impaired glucose metabolism. It is also the result of your precious American high carbohydrate and low fat diet.

Furthermore, because excess sugar from the rapidly digested bread/pasta/slurpee is shipped off to our fat cells, this environment that simple carbs and insulin creates is perfect for creating fat, not burning it. That's another reason why restricting calories when on a sugar metabolism is so painful... insulin creates fat, it doesn't use it for energy. Carbohydrates are the perfect foods to consume... if you want to make yourself obese and unhealthy.



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2) Fat metabolism utilizes more energy than carbohydrate metabolism. Now I shall explain the second fundamental scientific pillar that supports the efficacy low carbohydrate lifestyle; the essential truth that fat metabolism is less efficient, and therefore less energy sparing than carbohydrate metabolism. Understanding this phenomena, also known as Dr. Atkins "metabolic advantage", makes it possible for us to burn a greater number of calories through digestion.
We all know that 1 gram of fats has 9 calories, and 1 gram of protein/carbs have 4. This is very much true. No one disputes the laws of thermodynamics.However, what the calorie counters fail to consider is that our bodies are NOT remote laboratories, and there are very different pathways involved in converting the major macronutrient sources into usable energy. These pathways are not at all equal in speed (see point 1.2) or thrift. Your body uses MORE energy in its efforts to convert fat into ketones, than it does when converting carbs into glucose. So, while a certain percentage of all consumed calories are expended through digestion, a greater percentage of calories are expended when eating fat. The process of converting protein into glucose also burns more energy (though less than fat) than a carb metabolism.

Here is a link to the now infamous study in which it was shown low carb dieters were able to consume more calories and lose the same amount of weight as the low fat group. The high fat dieters ate 1800 calories; 300 more calories, 20% more than the low fat group.



Very true! How astute!
Unfortunately, a high carbohydrate diet perfectly provides the type of environment you speak of. Carbs are digested so rapidly that your body has no choice but to send this extra energy to your adipose tissue. Fat, on the other hand, is digested in a time release fashion, leaving your PYY levels high (no hunger), and your energy level and balanced (no hyper/hypoglycemia). A low carb diet is in no way conducive to fat storing. You would actually have to force yourself to gorge, as when eating low carb your body is balanced and you are in harmony with your energy needs. On a high carb diet it is very very easy to gorge and become fat.


... yes, unfortunately it is much easier to eat more calories than needed on a high refined carbohydrate diet.

:lol:
How foolish. First of all, all diets are diuretic. In the beginning, LC is more diuretic simply because you are depleting your muscle glycogen (stored carbohydrate), and storing muscle glycogen requires water. Make no mistake however, after this brief 5 poundish (depending on how much muscle you have/how many carbs you ate) water loss, all other weight is fat. Or, do you mean to tell me I am imagining myself 120 pounds lighter?

LINK to just ONE conclusive study that shows a proper controlled carbohydrate diet is dangerous, please? This has to be the most annoying of all anti-lc banter as it is nothing more than blatant scaremongering based in absolute no concrete evidence, and pure malicious lies.

What an offensive and foolish thing to say. If you think controlling your carbs is EASY in this age of sugar laden convenience, then you simply haven't tried it. The allure of being able to eat meat while dieting wears off quickly. It takes a great deal of emotional willpower to resist the treats you cannot have on a LC diet. If you mean LC is easy, because you feel better while doing it and no longer suffer from the crazy energy rollercoaster and ravenous hunger... well then, I guess I'm taking the easy way out. I never knew seeking increased health and well being was looked on as being indolent ;).


No, my dear, we tell you to read the book because you have absolutely no idea what LCing is about or why it works. Atkins may have been trying to make a buck, but don't dismiss his theories on this alone. After all, isn't everyone out for self betterment through profit? Why are the motives of the government subsidized grain industries more pure than Atkins Nutritionals? Yes, the government is very much in the refined grain industries pocket, and they were the major disseminators of anti-fat high-carb propaganda. Why don't you think about the implications of that on the way we have come to view good nutrition? Remember, fat has only been a "bad guy" for 30 years, but hunter-gatherers were eating low carb for thousands of years.

Good points everybody, but why waste your time. The 'people' posting that junk really aren't thinking it through. They lost me at Pound for pound, fat contains twice the calories of proteins or carbohydrates. FACT. :lol: A person that uses that as a primary statement in the arguement - 1) doesn't understand logic and 2) has made their mind (what little they have) up.

Save your time. Follow potatofree's(?) motto and don't try to teach this pig to dance.

PS: I have lost 103 lbs of water... What am I a Jellyfish??? :lol:

Rick

Provisionally true. The body can only store fat when insulin production is dominent (ie insulin levels are high). When glucagon is dominant (as it is on a low carb plan), they body either cannot store fat or can only store minimal amounts of it. Once fat is converted to ketone bodies it cannot be re-converted to fat again; the body must either use it for energy or waste it through the kidneys, bowels, lungs and sweat glands. The point about the body having to use more energy to convert fat for an energy source has already been made.



A very common opinion, but one that I'm afraid has not been substantiated by scientific studies done specifically on low carb. Lots of people can give all kinds of reasons why they think eating low carb is unhealthy; how interesting that none of the studies done to date have shown any of it to be correct.
I'd counter that argument with a "Show me one study that proves you are right done specifically on low carb. If not, admit that this is nothing more than your opinion and not fact."



To use the writer's own phrase: BOLLOCKS! Study after study has shown that low carbers consistenly lose less lean body mass during weight loss than their high carb/low fat counterparts and in some cases actually gained lean body mass. Go ask a body builder how much carb they eat when they are trying to build muscle and reduce body fat percentage. For that matter, ask him for the biochemistry in which the body converts carbs into muscle (hint...it doesn't. Carb are broken down into glucose which lacks the essential amino acids that the body requires to build muscle tissue. The body can only build muscle tissue with protein). :lol:
Low carb eating is adequate protein, meaning that you are giving your body enough protein to at least sustain its lean body mass (that's muscle). When it has enough protein coming in and enough essential amino acids, the body has absolutely no reason to cannibalize its own muscle tissue to get what it needs.




While this sounds good in theory, it also stresses your immune system and makes you more prone to illness because your body perceives it as a stress and produces stress hormones (cortisol) in response. Then again...people do tend to lose lots of weight when they're sick... :rolleyes:
He seems to forget that 50 years ago, we also didn't have high amounts of high fructose corn syrup in nearly every commercial food out there and that processed vegetable oils were also not used in home cooking (lard and butter were the fats of choice) and only just beginning to be used in commercial foods.
100 years ago "myocardial infarction" wasn't even known about because it was so rare for a person to have a heart attack. Look at what they were eating; animal protein with the fat, lard, butter, whole milk, heavy cream, fresh produce in season (not year 'round and fruits only found in tropical regions when you live in the frozen north). Sound like a way of eating we're all familiar with? Think there's a link? :rolleyes:

Just tell them you'd love to respond and refute them, but you can't type very well at the moment while you're rolling on the floor laughing.

Remember: You can never make an idiot understand that he's wrong. Don't waste your time.

Sharon

There are so many people that tell me "it's not good to cut out any one food group" I always answer with "I didn't know that sugar was it's own food group" LOL

There are some people on these boards that sure have lost a lot of water! LOL That is ridiculous. When I was on WW I lost 7 lbs the first week, WATER WEIGHT, it doesn't matter what type of diet or WOE that you go on, the first few lbs is always water weight. Why do people just seem to think that it only happens to LC'rs.

I haven't lost much, (well lost some then gained some back over the holidays) But I have only had 1 migraine in 4 weeks. I usually have some sort of headache 3 to 4 times a week which is said to be due to allergies. Well I'm not having them anymore, thats the only proof I need!

Wee

I also noticed, early on, that the constant sinus trouble I had was gone. I feel so much better I would never quit LC'ing just for that reason.

The original post we are responding to is so full of malarky it doesn't even bother me. I am grateful for losing 30 lbs of water...I was developing gills!

I carry a document in my purse that states how long I have been on the "diet". It has my lipid profile, samples of foods that I eat and a little definition on the yin and yang of the 2 homones that are secreted by the pancreas, insulin and glucagon, which explains why my profile is so good. I will have them read it. There will be no need to tell how much weight I lost. If they are curious, they will ask how much I have lost.

There is also a definition of ketosis which shows that it is a natural body process which occurs in anyone who is burning fat. No matter which diet we are on it IS our goals to burn fat or to go into ketosis. Athletes also go through deep ketosis.

Then I will feel that the case is closed.

I am new here but felt inclined to jump in on this thread. I started dieting last January. I joined Weight Watchers and Curves to get me going. I followed the WW plan to a T but it was a roller coaster ride for me. Up and down constantly. The first week of October I finally hit my 10% goal - it was only 15 lbs.! Well that day I sat there at the meeting feeling pretty bad that it took me so long to loose a lousy 15 lbs., especially when I workout at least 3 times a week at Curves and do Walk Away the Pounds the other days at home. The leader seemed unwilling to help me figure out why I couldn't lose - she said you need to stay on program - I swear I was! I didn't even eat the extra points I gained from my exercise. That was the last WW meeting I attended - it wasn't working so move on. I began researching the "evil" low carb diets that I had heard about and thought - Hey this is describing me exactly! So here I am on day 8 of Atkins. I am enjoying what I eat and feel great. I am satisfied unlike on WW when I was always hungry soon after I had eaten a meal. I will be a low carber for life and soon my family will be joining me.

Ah, yes. The world does not yet understand that all calories are not created equal. The key to the difference?? INSULIN! Guess the best thing to tell these bozos that bring up antiquated ideas is that it is now understood how insulin works, and since we are NOT all the same, some of us do better counting carbs instead of calories. We are NOT all the same which is why some people become diabetics and some don't. People who are so set in their ways are best left alone. I do love that water retention crap! I can't believe I have lost 45 pounds of water!

ItsTheWooo reminded me of biology class when I was in highschool. My best friend and I did our project on the digestive system. I remember we did a test on eating and how quickly an items disolved in your mouth. Only the carbohydrate (it was a cracker) started disolving immediately with the salvia.

When I first read and started Atkins, I thought back to that project. Everything made sense. Meat you have to chew. Fat takes up that same volume in your mouth when you bite and swallow. Carbs start melting right away. So it makes sense that fats and protein will stay in your body longer and give you more energy.

OK.. I am not a elloquent as ItsTheWooo but you get the point! :)

Great thread everyone and ItsTheWooo, I love your response!

AlluraD you have lost amost a baby pool or water!!!!

You know, I always wondered how you can tell the difference in water and fat by looking at the scale?? There are always gonna be Atkins haters that never bothered to educate themselves on the subject, but just like to hear themselves repeat scientific, or so they say, jargon. Let em talk,,,and when they are all through, ask them how much weight they have lost, and how good they feel. I have a couple co workers that eye my lunch almost every day and have a remark about how unhealthy it is. Well,,my doctor told me to NEVER go off the WOE< that it was healthy and the best plan for me and many others. She said she has patients who are diabetic that have had great results lowering their sugar and getting off the insulin by eating the way we do.
So, as the Bible says,,,let the heathen rage!!
Meanwhile, we are succeeding, and thats the best part!

54 pounds of water here!!

MY GOD AM I PARCHED!

*goes to drink 54 lbs of water, stat*