Serrelind, I did not say protein wasn't converted to glucose, I said it would not be stored as fat - very big difference.

[the following copied from Orion1 at Protein Power BB]

The process of converting excess protein into glucose is called de novo gluconeogenesis and it is a constant process that your body utilizes to maintain glucose homeostasis.

Gluconeogenesis, occurs predominantly in the liver although the kidneys also contribute approximate 10% of all gluconeogentic activity. The main precursors of gluconeogenesis are amino acids derived from the muscles. Another important precursor is lactate, which is formed in red blood cells and in muscles when oxygen is in short supply. Glycerol produced from the degradation of fats can also sustain gluconeogenesis. Humans can synthesize several hundred grams of glucose per day by gluconeogenesis. Cortisol, glucagon, and epinephrine promote gluconeogenesis, whereas insulin inhibits it.

So, it is possible to make glucose out of proteins, in fact we do that all the time. Whenever the blood glucose level drops, signals are sent to put the gluconeogentic machinery to work. However, this process is under the control of glucagon, cortisol or epinephrine, the three of them acting under different circumstances. Glucagon and insulin cannot both be "on" at the same time. That is, if glucagon is “on” and controlling gluconeogenesis, insulin is “off”, and vice versa. Following this reasoning, if insulin is off (actually that means not present in excess), fat storage is also controlled, and fat release from the fat cells is favored (another process influenced by glucagon).

The process of storing fat into you fat cells needs both fat and insulin. The process of making fat requires both excess carbohydrates and insulin to activate fat synthesis. With glucagon being released instead these processes are inhibited. Thus, the mere conversion of amino acids into glucose by gluconeogenesis should not be misunderstood as a mechanism through which fat can be synthesized or deposited into the fat cells. The glucose produced by gluconeogenesis has a “tag” on it, and it will serve to supply for blood glucose when the levels fall.


Nat

This is such a interesting thread-

okay, so let me get this straight...
 

although as nat says, (and might i say, nat, that you explain things thoroughly and eloquently! :) ) i may be stalled and concurrently in ketosis, i will not gain weight if i am currently showing ketones (unless it be muscle, which is welcome!), which totally coincides with what i know about lipolysis vs. glucosis. thanks for the concise explanation!

so, that's good enough reason to keep up the old WOL! (cuz' i know that one piece of apple pie, or one croissant, or one bowl of pasta, and BAM! i can gain six pounds! does that sound suspiciously like an allergic reaction to anyone else here? :lol: i told my husband the other day that i'm not fat, its just that i suffer from systemic edema triggered by carbohydrate! he laughed his *ss off!)

but here's another question- if i am excreting dietary fat instead of stored fat, am i eating too much fat? or too many calories? or should i try supplementation with some mobilizers, such as chromium picolinate or etc? i am going in to interview our only local gym (i live in the boondocks) so i will probably be beginning a formal workout schedule soon (in addition to my hectic home business, volunteer efforts, gardening, and two toddlers of which i am the sole caretaker... *whew*)

any ideas, info, links, etc?

I had this problem as well. I stuck to the rules and kept me carbs down to under 10 and up to 30 and my calorie count at a resonable amount. I finally gave up dairy all together - the only basic change and I finally was able to start loosing weight. I have found that I cannot not tolerate the protien in dairy. It will cause me to gain weight and to have arthritis type syptoms. Apparently this is not an uncommon reaction

Hi again, Toots :)

I went back to your initial post in this thread to check as to when this 'stall' happened. Four weeks. I feel your frustration. First question, have you been taking measurements all along? Shrinkage counts in the loss column (more so than scale loss, IMHO). It's very common to lose one or the other, but not both at the same time.

If I recall correctly, up until recently you were eating sugar alcohols in the LC bars. OK I recall correctly, I just did a little searching ;) This is also your second go around with LCing, and that second attempt can be notoriously agonizing at first. Our bodies are nothing if not very good at adapting - you taught it once that this LC jaunt might not last, it's possible it's holding out on you.

Add to this I just noticed that TOM started last week.

IMHO you're not stalled. You can of course get a second and third opinion!

Exercising is a good plan - it will help you feel better and it will help the journey along. As for too many calories and fat - a little more detail would be needed to make that call. But judging from the menu you posted last week I'd say no, you're not eating too many calories, you may be eating too few.

I think, and I'm speaking generally here, the bulk of dieters greatly understimate how much energy it takes to keep their bodies running and healthy. The resting metabolism of overweight women is roughly 25% higher than that of their lean counterparts.

Have a read here for starters, and click on the link to the RMR calculator halfway down the post. (to satisfy my own curiousity I plugged in your age, height and weight from the harris / benedict drop down box and with a 'sedentary' lifestyle - which is pushing things with two toddlers - you get a BMR of 1610 calories a day and a TDEE of 1932 calories a day). Add to this the fact that you're following a LC diet and you have to deal with the whole Metabolic Advantage working against you when you under eat. If breaking down fat for fuel takes 4 calories of a 9 calorie gram of fat you're left with 5 calories per gram - you've just lost close to half your fat calories for the day :eek:


It sounds like two things. 1) A very good reason to stay away from those things ;) and 2) water bloat. Every single gram of carbs you put in your mouth is going to attract between 3 and 5 grams of water. Eat 250grams extra and *poof* voila, 1000g or 1K or 2.2 lbs.

I know it's trite when you read it, it's trite when I type it, but be patient. You'll get there. And of course, keep asking the questions. It makes us all think!

-Nat

well, although i would be quick to deny it if accused, i will be quick to admit it myself- i am still very young, and often impatient. the idea of planting bulbs in fall for may flowers- that sort of thing- i just haven't lived long enough to have a thorough in-my-bones understanding of it. my best friends have always been in my grandmother's generation (my best pal in the world is actually more than twice my age...) and although they know i may exhibit maturity in many areas, there are some things that just don't come without plain old experience. *grin*

i saw such results with this diet before- lost weight so fast and felt wonderful, and though i ate like a pig, pretty much unlimited carbs as long as they weren't from sugars or refined flour foods, the weight dropped off. but i stalled for a little over a month right at thanksgiving, at which time a little treat here and there turned into "screw this it doesn't work its just not fair that my family and friends can eat what they want and stay the same and i must have some weird disease and arrgh!!!" needless to say, i gained almost all of it back. in a year... *sigh*

after some halfhearted attempts to restartthat never lasted more than a day or two, i finally buckled and told myself that i am unwilling to live this way, and that if i have to look at my metabolic condition as an illness that requires a special diet, so be it. its easier for me than to try to get those around me to change to my "healthy" way of eating. they don't get it, and don't see themselves as unhealthy (no matter what the TRUTH might be!).

so i guess i missed my "golden shot" and my body got wise to my tricks. but i feel that this time, i really believe in what i'm doing. i'm sticking to it for other reasons than just that i want to fit into my old clothes (the ones i bought last year when i was 160lbs and am still paying off on my credit card that haven't fit since before Christmas!!!). i know its better for me, and i haven't felt quite as jipped when i feed my family the pasta toss and i just have the "stir-ins."

(sorry about the novel. sometimes i just... *sigh*)

so forgive my silly impertinence and my ingratiating impatience... but since i've never had to count calories or fat grams or any of this before, i'm new at it. i may be awesome at creating low-carb delicacies (i have always been a great cook, and LCing is just another challenge!!), i may be able to preach to others on the advantages and the science behind the WOL, but i really did have it easy before. granted, i have never been "thin," but still. i averaged 145 through my teen years, and always felt fat, but i looked okay. mostly my mom gave me a hard time (her body type is different than mine- she's a little frail thing). at my leanest i was 132, not touching a thing to eat due to stress before my wedding, but i had been eating low-carb high-protein and working out religiously for over six months. i got married, got REALLY depressed (we were way beyond broke- we lived in a ten foot travel trailer with no running water, and no heat, and used the camp showers once a week at the national park down the road) and gained over thirty lbs in three months. my body was trashed. huge angry stretch marks everywhere- the works. then i had a miscarriage. there was another 20lbs. then a baby (i gained 25lbs during the pregnancy, but lost 20 within two weeks afterwards), back to 185. maintained for six months (starving constantly while breastfeeding) then got pregnant again. *sigh* back up to almost 220 this time before delivery. then atkins. whoosh. had the baby in May, 190lbs, 160 by September. then one little stall and i edged my way off of it. so far this forum has been a lifesaver. So i started at 185lbs in August, and I'm at 176.5 today.

thank you all so much!

Paradox, it's working, and it does work, it just takes ... err... patience (sorry!). Two things:

:idea: Would you say you were eating more than you are currently?

And two - a suggestion. Have a read through Marlaine's Journal in the journal section. She had a very tough start of LC, but she's made incredible progress - you'll see what I mean looking through her journal. Just because it's slow going now doesn't mean it's always going to be slow going. And if it is? You'll get there, it may just take a little longer, but 'there' is going to happen regardless, right?

Nat

right! you're awesome, Nat.

(and i just checked out your pics- you look fabulous! what an accomplishment! and i bet you FEEL fabulous too, dont' you!!)

ahh, to be able to one day make love without feeling like i just competed in a triathlon... to play hide-and-seek with my kids without breaking a sweat and panting like a puppy dog... this is why i am doing this, and I CAN DO IT. and i won't let me tell myself otherwise. *grin*

That's the spirit! Whenever you need the pick me up just let us know - it's what we're here for :)

-N