Thanks bfdzio,

I have a question for you - what would work better - A CKD like you're doing, or a stict permanent induction diet? I dont mind not eating no carbs for 2 mths - but difficulty aside, which one of these would work better?
Im really impressed - you lost a s***load of weight, exactly what I need to do! :)

Thanks

From what i've heard they are..

TrainerDan- What about the use of alcohol when taking Ephedrine HCL and Caffeine? In addition, do you take this 7 days a week, or do you stop when you are loading...?

I'm not bfdzio, but...

My feeling is to stick with induction until you begin to slow down (indicating your thyroid has slowed down), and then do something to kick start it, which means strategic carb refeeds (and heavy lifting, of course!)

- Built

^^ Exactly what Built said...I dieted down to this weight, sacrificing muscle in the process. Even though I am not at and beyond my original goal of 170, I am now trying to get my weight back up in lean mass. In order to do this, I needed to install a carbohydrate loading period on the weekends for muscle development while I diet during the weeks for fat loss.

So far, I've been following it rather "dirty" like, but i'm doing my best. I've probably had more fat than reccomended on the weekends, thats all. I however did remeasure myself, and after 4 weeks, I am down 1/2 inch around my abdomen, and up 1/2-1 inch just below my ribcage, which means i'm beginning to fill out my form (before, I was more underweight and muscle-less that at the bottom of my ribs, my stomach dipped inward a little..now its a smooth transition).

Mishal
CKDor TKD if you are lifting is recommended. I did LC induction for about 14 months. I started CKD about 7 weeks ago. I have seen good results after tweaking the carb up cycle to 24 hours. I have been doing the NHE carb up meals for three weeks now. I am still losing a pound a week and making great progress with my lifting.
I bench pressed 300 pounds 7 reps Saturday. That was the most reps at that weight ever.
Like Built indicated continuous LC will slow your metabolism and deplete glycogen. The carb ups kick up your metabolism and replenish glycogen levels.
Remember to keep fat and protein low and carbs high on t carb up. Please read CKD 101 at the beginning of this forum for more info.
There are a few good books we can recommend also.

Jag

What is the exact amount of protein reccomended on the carb up? I was going through old posts, and some people said they used protein bars as their main meals during the carb up.

I also ask because on my carbup, I used a lot of fat free milk and cereal..which gave me a good amount of protein.

Go to the first page of my journal. I put in the link that breaks down the NHE bulk and cut versions of the diet. There you will find the ratios that you seek.

:)

- Built

Thanks.

By the way...still looking for the answer to the question about E/C stack and alcohol. I tend to have a drink or two on the weekends, nothing excessive unless I've got a reason to celebrate :)

I drink less than you do, but the odd time I've had a couple of drinks on stack, I haven't had any trouble.

What to do now that Ephedra is banned? Are there still products on the market with this? I have used it before and love the energy feeling. Any suggestions to still finding similar items? I tried ephedra hydroxy cut... Didn't work.

I am off of alcohol for the next 12 weeks ... but when I did take EC, there were times I am sure when I overlapped drinking with EC.

I did notice I got red faster, but that isn't saying much. LOL. I flush pretty easy (Irish + Ukranian = Not alot of pigmentation).

I don't see a problem with mixing alcohol and E/C.

clgrein,
Vaspro Ephedrine hcl is available at
http://www.1fast400.com/?products_id=50

Jag

Hah...same here, i'm 50% Irish, 50% Brazilian....You would think that I would get a combo between my fathers dark Brazilian skin and my mothers pasty Irishness, but nope.....Pure white, never tan, just turn red.

Oh cool - so I'm not the only one who has to stay away from 100 watt light bulbs!

(laughing) count me into the whitey club! Sometimes I feel like a mutant around here, everyones seems to have a dark tan... and they look at me as if I'm commiting a cardinal sin for being white. I am grateful for Neutrogena foam on a regular basis.


btw, I've used EC and drank.. no problem there.

I can't wait till the end of summer. I have a little indian in me
I'll get tan enough for all of you ghosts!
Built 100 watt bulb! LMAO.

Jag

Cool, so we're all fish-belly-white ('cept for Jag!) pill-poppin' drunks.

I'm so glad I've finally found my peeps!

;)

And Jag, for the record, there's rumours of a smidge of Mohawk blood in our family (and it shows in my Mum's lovely olive skin), but let's just say this white-girl won't be trying for status...my husband looked at the burn I got from being out in the sun for about 15 minutes and remarked "Does it pretty much just rain constantly in Scotland?"

<sigh!>

:lol:

I carry Sportblock 45 in my car. :)

I have a collection of hats since I had precancerous lesions on my nose two summers ago.

I don't care.

Hats are ELEGANT <she sniffed!>
;)

Wow Meg, I never pegged you for a foam girl. :) Until my tanning actually browns me up, I have taken to the 6 second spray tan booth. Hopefully I won't need to keep that up much longer.

Some of the things we talk about here!
:)

Jag

Boy do I feel lucky. I flash tan - 10 min in the sun and I'm golden (thanks to mediterrenian parents:))

Anyhoo, I just finished reading this entire thread, whew.
I've tried a bunch of ECA's over the years, and some E free.

E free stuff I tried was a waste of money (Lean System 7, SAN Tight)
My personal favorite was VPX's Liquid Clenbutrx (which doesn't exist anymore)

I just oredered a bottle of VPX's Meltdown z-14. It sounds pretty good for what's available.
Anyone hear anything good or bad?

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/vpx/meltz.html

Maybe somebody can explain, most the ingredients on the list I do not recognize from other fatburners.

Container Size: 60 Capsules
Serving Size: 2 Capsules
Servings Per Container: 30

Container Size: 120 Capsules
Serving Size: 2 Capsules
Servings Per Container: 60

Amount Per Serving:

Caffeine Anhydrous: 200mg
Octopamine: 150mg
Coleus Forskohlii: 100mg
Tyramine: 75mg
Hordenine: 50mg
Citrus Aurantium: ~ 95% Synephrine 50mg
Evodiamine: 38mg
5-Methoxytryptamine: 25mg
Vinpocetine: 20mg
Rutaecarpine: 10mg
Hydroxyevodiamine: 5mg
Diiodotyrosine: 150mcg


Other Ingredients:
Gelatin, Cellulose.

Directions: Begin use with 1-2 capsules, two to three times daily to assess your tolerance. Never exceed 6 capsules daily or 2 capsules in a single dose. For best results use as a part of a moderate to low carbohydrate diet and exercise program. Sleeplessness may occur if taken too close to bedtime.

Dunno about the others (other than the caffeine, of course, which can help mobilize fat stores), but Coleus Forskohlii is an Ayurvedic decongestant that did NOTHING for me, and Citrus Aurantium gave me the jitters so bad I stopped taking it. And I take ephedrine with no problems.

If it was me, I wouldn't waste my time on this product.

My .02

I have a bottle of Xenadrine RFA-1 and it says a serving is 2 pills, and each serving had 6mg ephedrine. That makes 12mg...Why does everyone else on here (cept Built) reccomend 20-25?

Oh, and as for the fat burner, I assume SOMETHING that is better than ephedra will come along someday, but before it got banned, I never believed any fatburners worked anyway. I think it had something to do with the ridiculous photos.

Built,

This is a bitt off topic, but I remember reading in a previos post that when you run, you actually gain weight. I have the same problem. I do weights (3x wk) and when I throw running in there to accelerate the fat loss, I stall, or gain some. But, I can lose just fine with weights and no cardio.
Have you found any reasoning to this? Do you do do any other cardio that may be effective?

Thanks :)

Its water I believe, your muscles in your body are holding onto it more when you exercise I think.

Really?
But why only with running?

I really do not know. I'd leave the proper answer to Built or TrainerDan, as i'm still educating myself as much as possible.

All I can promise is that is probably is not fat, and is in fact water. Why..I do not know for sure, but that was my guess.